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Quantifiable Audiophile Adjectives

Barrelhouse Solly

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Loud and soft are quantifiable, although the boundaries are arbitrary. I imagine some of the other subjective terms could be quantified if there were a basic definition like "Blue is a range of light frequencies between X and Y."
 

delta76

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You can't measure phase distortion with a single or even thirty-two tones. Is it possible to quantify Airyness with an AP555?

The chart posted is of vital importance however.
I believe @amirm did a analysis video on phase distortion.
If it can't be measured by Knippel NFS then how could human ears hear it
 

Justdafactsmaam

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Hi all,

What audiophile terms have you come across that have an identifiable/measurable trait?

My own top ones would be:
Warmth = High Frequency roll off amount
Width = Timing variance between channels

I ask as I'm very curious as to wether the perceptible 'depth' or '3D presentation' of a device (that I sometimes read about from seemingly respectable equipment reviewers) is something that can be measured; potentially as a phase characteristic of lower amplitude frequencies in a broadly dynamic signal(?).

Whenever I hear the Audiophile adject-spiel I wonder what can be measured. Hence my interest in this forum! Reluctant to write off reviewers opinions that aren't scientific, more curious about ways of quantifying them all. ✌
There are essentially four main elements that contribute to spatial perception. Three of them come down to differences heard between the left and right ears. Amplitude, arrival time and head transfer function.

All three of those in two channel audio (excusing headphones) are a product of channel separation. 80-90% of channel separation loss happens because of cross talk between the speakers and listener and the room and the listener.

The fourth aspect is visual cues.

And it is all very measurable
 

levimax

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Based on my experience with LP's and the image they present compared to the image presented by the same recording on CD I would say in general the LP image is wider and deeper less focused and often times has more of a sense of being in the room. This leads me to believe that super accurate timing / phase and low cross talk are not particularly important for imaging as LP's are relatively terrible at this.

What LP's do uniquely have is a lot of out of phase noise which is what adds to the perceived image width and depth. To check this listen to a noisy LP between tracks and then switch to mono. Not only does this greatly reduce the noise but the image collapses compared to the stereo noise.

All of this is measurable but where it gets complicated is how measured differences interact with our perception and our individual brain's processing.

If you try to argue with some subjectivists that the wider image they hear is caused by noise and lower quality reproduction they may not be recptive. Conversly some objectivists will not be receptive to the idea that some people can hear and even prefer a difference caused by objectively compromised playback. This is why words and measurements are not always easy to correlate.
 

Justdafactsmaam

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As “bad” as the measured cross talk is on a cartridge, anywhere from 20-30 db channel separation, it is fantastic compared to speaker, listener/ room, listener channel separation which comes in around 5-10 db depending on the speakers, the room and the geometry of the set up. So vinyl certainly isn’t going to be the weakest link.

I also suspect that some vinyl coloration’s enhance the sense of spaciousness. But I doubt it’s the added cross talk of the cartridge.
 

jsrtheta

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All very subjective and subject to consensus. A good rule-of-thumb for those who agree, maybe, but not universal because those descriptive terms are wide-open to interpretation. I guess a Committee could make a Standard of it. :),.
I dunno, makes perfect sense to me.
 

Chuckser

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As “bad” as the measured cross talk is on a cartridge, anywhere from 20-30 db channel separation, it is fantastic compared to speaker, listener/ room, listener channel separation which comes in around 5-10 db depending on the speakers, the room and the geometry of the set up. So vinyl certainly isn’t going to be the weakest link.

I also suspect that some vinyl coloration’s enhance the sense of spaciousness. But I doubt it’s the added cross talk of the cartridge.
Noise bouncing off the walls, creating a simulated reverb impulse!? I believe this can be fed back through the signal chain via the speaker cones into the power valve cathode fields and thence the preamp valves via the fields. A current field of research.
 

Chuckser

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I believe @amirm did a analysis video on phase distortion.
If it can't be measured by Knippel NFS then how could human ears hear it
How do you calculate the impedance and phase relationships at each frequency?
 

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DVDdoug

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I just ignore the audiophile nonsense. Most of the time I don't even believe the descriptions of the sound unless they are explained in actual scientific or engineering terminology and/or backed-up with measurements.

I used to think I knew what "warm" meant (mid-bass boost) but then I found out that sometimes it means slight "pleasing distortion". I don't use that word anymore (in relation to audio ;) ).

Sometimes, I'll say "dull" or "bright", but then I try to remember to explain it by saying rolled-off or boosted highs.
 

Chromatischism

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The sound is bouncing off your plasma screen. Have you considered sound absorption panels, inside the speakers? Along with the first reflection point and ceiling if your budget allows. If 70% of sound pressure at the ear is incident from reflective surfaces, doesn't that equal 70% distortion? People tend to increase the volume to drown that distortion and increase direct SPL from the speakers. The phase information in particular is destroyed and it's that which creates the soundstage and stereo image. It might even help to preserve our hearing.
I have 244's behind each front speaker, and a lot of energy is being absorbed by my recliners as well. With that plus my short distances, there's not much in terms of dominant reflections (at least not compared to the direct sound).

But the effect I was describing is a psychological one, not a physical one.
 
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