Quality of Raspberry Pi4 USB For Streaming

[antcollinet]

Hi there, which HAT did you use to implement a USB output to Pi 4? Did you include additional LDOs?

He described a USB output from Pi 4 to DAC - not to Pi4.

 

[Billyboy]

He described a USB output from Pi 4 to DAC - not to Pi4.

Well yes. I need the same as my dac prefers usb input in terms of jitter removal, but i’m just not too sure how to get a clean usb input out of RPI.

 

[antcollinet]

Well yes. I need the same as my dac prefers usb input in terms of jitter removal, but i’m just not too sure how to get a clean usb input out of RPI.

Connect the built in USB of the Pi4 to your DAC - job done.


Jitter with USB connections is not a thing, since the data is sent at the demand of the DAC, using the DAC clock.

Even if there were jitter in the sent data - (eg if you used a poor quality toslink output) modern DACS re-clock the data, rejecting jitter to well below audible levels.

 

[amarsicola]

Hi there, which HAT did you use to implement a USB output to Pi 4? Did you include additional LDOs?

Amir tested the usb out of raspberry pi 4 and it resulted perfect, so i am using it. On raspberry pi 3 some users say there might be some technical reasons to expect more noise, but I don't know if it has been demonstrated. In the meanwhile, Volumio released Qobuz Connect, no problems so far and user experience highly improved. As far as i know you have to pay for the premium Volumio subscription (around 70€/year) to have it. There is also an ongoing project to implement Qobuz Connect on moOde (an open source operating system similar to volumio) to have everything free, but it is a volunteer project and is expected to take quite a long time, i bet 3+ months

 

[somebodyelse]

On raspberry pi 3 some users say there might be some technical reasons to expect more noise, but I don't know if it has been demonstrated.

Raspberry Pi issue #2215 was closed as WONTFIX. It produces random pops/clicks a bit like listening to vinyl. Whether you will get it at all, or how badly, depends on a lot of things, including exactly which softeare is running. Search this site for #2215 for posts with more details.

 

[phofman]

Raspberry Pi issue #2215 was closed as WONTFIX. It produces random pops/clicks a bit like listening to vinyl. Whether you will get it at all, or how badly, depends on a lot of things, including exactly which softeare is running. Search this site for #2215 for posts with more details.

Makes sense, RPi3 is an outdated HW which is clearly not capable of reliable USB transmission at 125us (bInterval=1) https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/2215#issuecomment-848137081

 

[simon-b]

Amir tested the usb out of raspberry pi 4 and it resulted perfect, so i am using it. On raspberry pi 3 some users say there might be some technical reasons to expect more noise, but I don't know if it has been demonstrated. In the meanwhile, Volumio released Qobuz Connect, no problems so far and user experience highly improved. As far as i know you have to pay for the premium Volumio subscription (around 70€/year) to have it. There is also an ongoing project to implement Qobuz Connect on moOde (an open source operating system similar to volumio) to have everything free, but it is a volunteer project and is expected to take quite a long time, i bet 3+ months

Moode Audio is what I'm using on both Pi4 and Pi5. No HAT's or anything else. Pure USB out to external DAC. Qobuz as the streaming service. So far it has bested anything else I have tried. DAC's range from SMSL SU01 / Topping D90SE / Qutest / LAiV uDAC. Keep it simple.

 

[amarsicola]

Moode Audio is what I'm using on both Pi4 and Pi5. No HAT's or anything else. Pure USB out to external DAC. Qobuz as the streaming service. So far it has bested anything else I have tried. DAC's range from SMSL SU01 / Topping D90SE / Qutest / LAiV uDAC. Keep it simple.

How do you stream Qobuz in Volumio? Upnp?

 

[somebodyelse]

How do you stream Qobuz in Volumio? Upnp?

Probably Qobuz Connect which they integrated in May this year. LMS is another option.

 

[simon-b]

How do you stream Qobuz in Volumio? Upnp?

Moode Audio itself. Either with upplay on Linux, the Lumin App, Bubble UPNP or Linn Kazoo. Unfortunately not compatible with Qobuz Connect yet. Moode runs MPD, Mimidlna and upmdpcli. It is upmpdcli that has the Qobuz API. I've tried Volumio but the sound quality wasn't quite as good. A screenshot is attached from the junk room system.

 

[feket663]

Hello everyone! I have been listening to Raspberry Pi-based streamers for a few years now, currently using a Pi4b with an Allo Boss V1.2 DAC. Volumio operating system runs on the RPI, and I am satisfied with its services and usability. I mainly listen to 44/16 FLAC files, but I also have some higher resolution music files. I would like to upgrade my DAC and am considering purchasing a Fiio K11 R2R, or at least looking at something in that price range. Is it likely that a DAC in this price range will be an improvement over the Allo Boss V1.2? Does anyone have any other suggestions for a DAC in a similar price range (the rest of the audio chain consists of a Proton AA2120 power amplifier, a JBL 250 Ti Jubilee speaker, simple cables, and the Raspberry Pi and current DAC are powered by custom-made linear power supplies)? Do I need to adjust anything in Volumio, or is it enough to connect it to a USB port and it will work right away?

Thanks for help! Sincerely Istvan from Hungary

 

[amarsicola]

I would personally go for wiim pro plus (or Ultra) and forget about volumio... you have a great streamer and dac in one package, with a much more usable OS. Check online about wiim capabilities to play from local files. Also, you can consider a Qobuz subscription to have an immense catalogue of hi-res streaming, and wiim has qobuz connect at no additional cost.

If you are willing to keep your Raspberry, from the USB port you can use one of the many dacs tested here, this is one of the best i remember recently https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-balanced-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.64264/
this is also good and cheaper https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-d-6s-balanced-dac-review.48813/
You can see in all of dacs reviews the "Sinad ranking" graph which is most of the times a good proxy of overall quality of a dac, but read the individual reviews before buying. It is udated at every review so consider one of the recent ones to start your analysis

 

[aagstn]

Hello everyone! I have been listening to Raspberry Pi-based streamers for a few years now, currently using a Pi4b with an Allo Boss V1.2 DAC. Volumio operating system runs on the RPI, and I am satisfied with its services and usability. I mainly listen to 44/16 FLAC files, but I also have some higher resolution music files. I would like to upgrade my DAC and am considering purchasing a Fiio K11 R2R, or at least looking at something in that price range. Is it likely that a DAC in this price range will be an improvement over the Allo Boss V1.2? Does anyone have any other suggestions for a DAC in a similar price range (the rest of the audio chain consists of a Proton AA2120 power amplifier, a JBL 250 Ti Jubilee speaker, simple cables, and the Raspberry Pi and current DAC are powered by custom-made linear power supplies)? Do I need to adjust anything in Volumio, or is it enough to connect it to a USB port and it will work right away?

Thanks for help! Sincerely Istvan from Hungary

Switching from an i2S DAC to a USB one will require you to go into the setting for Volumio to select the USB one. That is it though. Once you do that, Volumio will output just fine to the USB DAC. As far as which one to use, I personally would not pay the cost of an R2R DAC that is sonically inferior to delta sigma. For around half the cost of the K11 you could get an SMSL SU-1 or similar delta sigma DAC that can decode all hi-res formats including DSD and be completely transparent. I believe the Allo Boss was already transparent so I doubt you will hear much difference unless you like the changes the filters in the K11 like NOS can make.

 

[amarsicola]

SMSL SU-1 is perfect, just check if it can be fed from the raspberry usb

 

[Nutul]

Every DAC that offers a USB input can be fed by a RPi's USB out.

 

[amper42]

I have been using the RME ADI-2 DAC FS via USB with RPi4/Moode for years. It's a huge step up from my Wiim devices. The sound is fantastic and the ability to use the custom Loudness controls is nothing short of amazing. What I also like is having the ability to connect a 256GB Samsung Fit drive to the RPI-4. Moode easily imports the music and plays any of these tunes on startup. A simple web bowser IP address offers a cool album interface for easy playback. This local music configuration supports a huge range of audio formats and resolutions even those over 192kHz.

I use Audirvana over DLNA to stream Qobuz to Moode/RPi4 but with digital music easily available and the ability to store hundreds of Albums on a single USB drive the size of my thumbnail, there's no reason not to have my favorite albums available locally. It's so much better than any option my Wiim products offer.

Moode has also gotten super easy to install and configure. Much easier than in the early days when I first started using RPi4. Now you run the installer with your wifi password inserted and it sets up the flash card. Plug the card into RPi4 and log into it with your browser. Set it up just the way you want and reboot. It's ready to use. AND everytime there is a new incremental update it's as simple as pushing the update button. In many ways, just like a wiim firmware update.

The Moode configuration with a tiny USB drive becomes a mini server as well. Recognized by Denon receivers it can easily be a source for music playback for them. All this functionality, plus the ability to log into Moode and add new music or pop out the USB drive, copy files from your computer and reinsert the drive in the RPi4. Simply, use the "Update Library" command and your new tunes are ready for use. There's really nothing like it. The degree of customization, quality of the bit perfect audio playback and low cost can't be beat.

 

[somebodyelse]

Every DAC that offers a USB input can be fed by a RPi's USB out.

Very likely but not guaranteed. While most USB DACs now support UAC1 or UAC2 standard interfaces, occasionally the implementation isn't quite compatible. In those cases it needs someone to work out what's wrong and add a quirk handler to the linux kernel. It may take some time before that quirk makes it into the kernel version used by the RPi OS you're using.

 

[Nutul]

Very likely but not guaranteed. While most USB DACs now support UAC1 or UAC2 standard interfaces, occasionally the implementation isn't quite compatible. In those cases it needs someone to work out what's wrong and add a quirk handler to the linux kernel. It may take some time before that quirk makes it into the kernel version used by the RPi OS you're using.

Sorry, I was not talking about _also_ controlling the DACs function via USB. Just streaming audio through it. Linux kernel supports both UAC1 and 2 since the beginning of time. Or so...

 

[JaMmy]

Last week I bought a pcm5102a chip board off Ali express for about £2. Connected to a Pi zero 2W (£15) and installed Moode. I don’t have any testing gear but my ears (old and deficient) couldn’t tell any difference from my WiiM pro plus. As a Scotsman I’m naturally chuffed.

 

[simon-b]

Very likely but not guaranteed. While most USB DACs now support UAC1 or UAC2 standard interfaces, occasionally the implementation isn't quite compatible. In those cases it needs someone to work out what's wrong and add a quirk handler to the linux kernel. It may take some time before that quirk makes it into the kernel version used by the RPi OS you're using.

The Rasperian OS does support UAC2 to the correct standard. If you have a DAC that doesn't support the protocol properly then the best thing to do is place it in the bin.