Quality of Raspberry Pi4 USB For Streaming

[DrCWO]

So, excuse potentially daft question, are we saying the RPi usb out, with any mature software, (picore, volumio, moode etc) will give identical, or near as damn it, performance?

I believe so. As far as the software used is transparent and did not modify the digital audio data. I know that the Roon Bridge is transparent so I think it was a good idea to use it for the proof.

 

[Multicore]

This is an analysis of Raspberry Pi4 USB signal quality to drive a budget but good DAC without impact on its performance. Traditionally it is thought that one needs a high-end "streamer" to accomplish the same.

I am curious about this tradition. I know nothing about it except perhaps one thing. An anecdote, if memory serves...

Several years ago I was learning about streaming, networks, system architectures, hardware and software and was interested in something called Andover Songbird Music Streamer. I found a youtuber singing Songbird's praises (iirc his channel specialized in "cheap"?). Another video from the same youtuber talked about RPi (which I ended up using for several years) and he said you gotta geta proppa RPi sound card that connects to the RPi's circuit board, like e.g. HiFiBerry, because USB is horrible for sound quality. I stopped watching that youtuber.

 

[5-pot-fan]

So, excuse potentially daft question, are we saying the RPi usb out, with any mature software, (picore, volumio, moode etc) will give identical, or near as damn it, performance?

Having used Moode Audio, LMS, Volumio and PiCoreplayer on an Rpi4 and now on an Rpi5, I can say that they are all equally audibly transparent. I have tested Moode and PiCoreplayer (with same source and same preamp, amp and speakers, in the same room on the same day) and could see no differences in the recorded outputs, using REW software. To my ears there was no difference in any of the 4, but those tests were performed over a different time series.
I have settled on Moode over the last 2 years because the way it handles tagged files and untagged folders suits me, and if I want to fiddle with EQ, Moode also includes CamillaDSP.
As always, the biggest changes are with your choice of speakers and the set up in the room.

 

[stargolem]

Excellent performance but maybe you would want to include its price of 400€ on the review as its quite higher than of a normal Pi, guess a big part due to the Roon licence?

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It seems that "rooExtend" doesn't offer much more functionality than the free RoPieee software for a Raspberry Pi. The price of 400 euros therefore appears significantly excessive. The RoonBridge software is free, and "rooExtend" does not include a Roon license.

 

[qirex]

I am curious about this tradition. I know nothing about it except perhaps one thing. An anecdote, if memory serves...

Several years ago I was learning about streaming, networks, system architectures, hardware and software and was interested in something called Andover Songbird Music Streamer. I found a youtuber singing Songbird's praises (iirc his channel specialized in "cheap"?). Another video from the same youtuber talked about RPi (which I ended up using for several years) and he said you gotta geta proppa RPi sound card that connects to the RPi's circuit board, like e.g. HiFiBerry, because USB is horrible for sound quality. I stopped watching that youtuber.

Older RPis had a single shared USB and network bus and could actually have problems with audio transport. Using a HAT solved this. Modern ones (everything starting with the 4, IIRC) don't have this limitation.

 

[M.C. Logan]

This seems quite cool, but in terms of value... surely a WiiM mini has it beat hands down? It's in the same ballpark as a rpi and doesn't require a roon subscription or licensing fees.

I rather think the target market is primarily roon users

 

[M.C. Logan]

100% - the advantage of the WiiM is convenience, not SQ as such.

I used to connect my phone or tablet to my DAC and stream from my DLNA server using Neutron, then I replaced it with a WiiM Pro - mostly because I wanted to be able to easily EQ streaming services.

Now I have 4 WiiMs around the house, and being able to link them and play the same thing everywhere is awesome.

Or use roon and a bunch of RPis. With Ropiee installed you can also use the Pis as shittify connect endpoints, airport endpoints, upnp endpoints and as LMS repeater/gateway to any upnp only devices, roon enabling them. MUCH more versatile and with choice of usb DACs or HAT DACs.

 

[DrCWO]

It seems that "rooExtend" doesn't offer much more functionality than the free RoPieee software for a Raspberry Pi. The price of 400 euros therefore appears significantly excessive. The RoonBridge software is free, and "rooExtend" does not include a Roon license.

Please see my comment here:

Quality of Raspberry Pi4 USB For Streaming

I connect with my laptop computer to the PiCorePlayer wirelessly and use the computer to navigate Qobuz and control playback. I have seen the screen setups but i would need to get the correct header attachment for the picoreplayer. I kinda like sitting on my couch and not having to get up to...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

So, excuse potentially daft question, are we saying the RPi usb out, with any mature software, (picore, volumio, moode etc) will give identical, or near as damn it, performance?

Short answer: Yes

Longer answer, it's digital and is sending the same bits it receives.

 

[M.C. Logan]

I am curious about this tradition. I know nothing about it except perhaps one thing. An anecdote, if memory serves...

Several years ago I was learning about streaming, networks, system architectures, hardware and software and was interested in something called Andover Songbird Music Streamer. I found a youtuber singing Songbird's praises (iirc his channel specialized in "cheap"?). Another video from the same youtuber talked about RPi (which I ended up using for several years) and he said you gotta geta proppa RPi sound card that connects to the RPi's circuit board, like e.g. HiFiBerry, because USB is horrible for sound quality. I stopped watching that youtuber.

With older Pis the usb and ethernet shared an I/o channel, ergo the usb connection was unsuitable for audio. The Pi4, with much improved hardware separated the I/o, enabling the unrestricted use of USB DACs. Moving the DAC off board keeps interference from the Pi itself at a distance.

 

[Multicore]

With older Pis the usb and ethernet shared an I/o channel, ergo the usb connection was unsuitable for audio. The Pi4, with much improved hardware separated the I/o, enabling the unrestricted use of USB DACs. Moving the DAC off board keeps interference from the Pi itself at a distance.

Before we got the WiiM, I used to run upmpdcli on a Pi Zero connected with USB to a Topping D50s. Worked fine afaict. Does the Zero also have separate IO for network and USB?

 

[JakeK]

Rpi3 USB audio test

That seems to suggest there is no problem with USB audio on RPi3?

With older Pis the usb and ethernet shared an I/o channel, ergo the usb connection was unsuitable for audio. The Pi4, with much improved hardware separated the I/o, enabling the unrestricted use of USB DACs. Moving the DAC off board keeps interference from the Pi itself at a distance.

So there may be problems with USB Audio on older RPis?

I am curious about this tradition. I know nothing about it except perhaps one thing. An anecdote, if memory serves...

Several years ago I was learning about streaming, networks, system architectures, hardware and software and was interested in something called Andover Songbird Music Streamer. I found a youtuber singing Songbird's praises (iirc his channel specialized in "cheap"?). Another video from the same youtuber talked about RPi (which I ended up using for several years) and he said you gotta geta proppa RPi sound card that connects to the RPi's circuit board, like e.g. HiFiBerry, because USB is horrible for sound quality. I stopped watching that youtuber.

A good DAC HAT is about £40 so 30% of the cost of an external DAC, needs no separate power supply brick, fits inside a tiny case with your Pi and arguably sounds the same as any other DAC. So the point for me is more about cost and neatness.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I am curious about this tradition. I know nothing about it except perhaps one thing. An anecdote, if memory serves...

Several years ago I was learning about streaming, networks, system architectures, hardware and software and was interested in something called Andover Songbird Music Streamer. I found a youtuber singing Songbird's praises (iirc his channel specialized in "cheap"?). Another video from the same youtuber talked about RPi (which I ended up using for several years) and he said you gotta geta proppa RPi sound card that connects to the RPi's circuit board, like e.g. HiFiBerry, because USB is horrible for sound quality. I stopped watching that youtuber.

The poor sound quality of the Raspberry Pi is the analog sound coming from it's 1/8" audio jack. Up through the Pi 3 B the best audio option was a HAT. The Pi 4 separated USB from ethernet and gave users a choice between USB to a DAC and a DAC HAT. The Pi 5 does not have an analog output. It doesn't give the option of remote control but you can connect multiple USB out devices to a standalone DAC with a USB switch. Because I'm an obsessive hobbyist I have 3 Pis connected to a Khadas Tone Board. Because I control it from my bedside table I don't need a remote. I realize it's not the best solution for every case.

 

[amarsicola]

I have been using RPI 4 for 4 years with Volumio, only for streaming Qobuz. Always worked fine, feeding my dac via usb without a single glitch.

Volumio is ok, also has dsp, but the UI is not the best. Qobuz announced that they will release the "qobuz connect" feature that will allow using the native Qobuz app to stream to volumio or wiim. At that point having wiim or volumio will be just irrelevant since the native Qobuz app is better by definition. Can't wait to forget the Volumio UI.

Roon in my opinion is a useless additional cost if you are interested in streaming services only, and also needs additional devices to run the Roon core, no raspberry can act as roon core at the moment.

 

[VientoB]

It's nice, but I am happy with my Chromecast Audio for streaming purposes

Me too. Still the cheapest option that's ever been produced?

 

[antcollinet]

arguably sounds the same as any other DAC.

Some measured here have not been that good:

Review and Measurements of Aoide DAC II Pi HAT

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Aoide DAC II Raspberry Pi HAT DAC. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. He bought it from Amazon and it costs US $39.99 including Prime shipping. It uses an ESS ES9018K2M DAC Chip unlike the competing budget DACs which...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Chapeau ou non? (PCM5102MK non-HAT DAC review)

Hi, Guys! Use of French in the title is not arbitrary. :) Chapeau ou non? literally translates to: “Hat or not?”. However, chapeau is also frequently used as expression of admiration, approval, respect and is short for chapeau bas (literally “hat down”) in a same sense as in English “I take my...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is probably the only one I'd consider - but that is the same price as an inexpensive external DAC - and still not SOTA.

HifiBerry DAC2 HD Review (Rpi HAT)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the HifiBerry DAC 2 HD. It was kindly sent to me by a member already assembled on a Raspberry Pi board. The DAC2 HD costs US $99 from company website. Here is a shot of the full assembly: Let's zoom into it: As you see it is based on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[antcollinet]

With older Pis the usb and ethernet shared an I/o channel, ergo the usb connection was unsuitable for audio. The Pi4, with much improved hardware separated the I/o, enabling the unrestricted use of USB DACs. Moving the DAC off board keeps interference from the Pi itself at a distance.

While the technical change exists, I have a pi3 based streamer here, using USB to a DAC, and it has been faultless for audio.

So I don't think that shared bus is much of a problem if all you are doing is streaming audio with it. Audio after all doesn't need much bandwidth.

 

[Soniclife]

While the technical change exists, I have a pi3 based streamer here, using USB to a DAC, and it has been faultless for audio.

So I don't think that shared bus is much of a problem if all you are doing is streaming audio with it. Audio after all doesn't need much bandwidth.

I had the same experience with a pi2 as well, but rarely listened to anything more than 16/44.

 

[Endibol]

WIIM Mini for the win!

View attachment 443257

Very stable WiFi connection and app! Great value for money and very clean digital output.

 

[Endibol]

Volumio is ok, also has dsp, but the UI is not the best

I used Volumio a couple of years ago in combination with the miniDSP SHD studio and Spotify connect. I found the software to be unstable and cumbersome to use.