Qobuz or Tidal ?

[Ultrasonic]

I use Qobuz and would personally avoid Tidal due to their mis-selling of MQA. There are other lossless streaming services as alternatives if you decide against Qobuz as well.

 

[Redacted]

On other forums, I have noticed that anecdotal reports suggest more issues with Tidal (pro rata), including sudden cut-out when playing music. There was speculation about serve hosts or app issues. I'm not sure there was a solid answer.

I have no skin in the game, it's still the "Wild West" in streaming land IMHO, but one day I might be tempted. That day is not today.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Amazing, almost to cheap to help our musician artists !
Qobuz was 20€ five years ago, today it is 12.49€.
That is the price for one CD !

That’s why if I really like something on streaming I will still buy the CD especially if it comes with a nice booklet, if the CD has extra tracks not on streaming, or if it’s produced by a small company.

 

[goat76]

I use Qobuz and would personally avoid Tidal due to their mis-selling of MQA. There are other lossless streaming services as alternatives if you decide against Qobuz as well.

At first, I used the predecessor of Tidal called Wimp and I kept using them for many years after the name change, well, until they started promoting MQA. I quickly jumped over to Qobuz because of that, which I used for 2 or 3 years.

Then I realized I wanted something that provides music in Dolby Atmos as well, and as Tidal had abandoned MQA and also lowered the monthly rate, I decided to switch back to them.
Apple Music wasn’t really an option, as that platform can’t be used with all my existing audio gears.

Out of Qobuz and Tidal, I preferred the software interface of the former, but as most of the bands I usually listen to are fairly small noise rock and alternative bands, it seems that Tidal has a larger library in that particular genre.
And as already mentioned, Tidal also provide music in Dolby Atmos, which can be fun to listen to sometimes even if there’s a lack of my preferred genre in that format.

I don't think anyone can go wrong with any of the streaming services. Just make sure of which one provides the most music in your preferred genre, and that most of your audio gear supports the service you choose.

 

[Keith_W]

On other forums, I have noticed that anecdotal reports suggest more issues with Tidal (pro rata), including sudden cut-out when playing music.

I can contribute to those anecdotal reports. It's true, and it's really annoying me.

 

[goat76]

I moved to Tidal because it pays artists more, but I have a terrible time with streams just stopping or dropping out. Am I the only one? It seems like I can't even listen to a full album without the stream crapping out somehow. I have perfectly good internet connections, and the problem persists on home or wireless connections. I did not have this problem with Spotify.

I am thinking of bailing and going to Apple Music instead. Any advice?

According to Linn, Tidal Hi-Res streams are very ”computationally intensive”. When I switched from Qobuz to Tidal, I noticed that my Linn Akurate DSM didn’t receive anything from Tidal above 16-bit/44.1kHz, even though some music was supposed to be of higher resolution than that. This was never the case with Qobuz with the same streamer, so I guess their streaming is less ”computationally intensive” than Tidal’s.
This is really not a big thing for me, as I struggle hearing any difference above 16-bit/44.1kHz anyways.

Maybe this is related to the issues you experience?

”Tidal Hi-Res streams are very computationally intensive. Our earlier products will struggle decoding and playing back these Hi-Res files. Until Tidal can address this intense stream issue, from Davaar105, these earlier products will have limited sample rate of Hi-Res streams (CD quality and higher). https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index....LAC.2C_Master_Quality_Authenticated_.28MQA.29

 

[Morpheus]

Qobuz definetely.
Qobuz is by far the best paying platform for the artists, compared to Tidal, and other major wide ranging plataforms ( not the mention Spotifys ripoff). Please support the musicians, the people responsible for the music, instead of faceless midlemen and corporatiins between us and them. This has become completely lopsided.I still buy cd's from time to time ( not enough space and hás 3 cd players die on me in 20 y) just because of that...and actually owning the music you love.

 

[amper42]

What would be the technical explanation for the lack of clarity when streaming digital music files from Apple Music or Qobuz?

In a perfect world there should be no difference between playing local music off USB drive and listening to a streaming service like Qobuz, Apple or Tidal. However, in the real world it adds one more step that the music needs to go through to reach your ears. Below are some factors why an audio difference between local music playback and streaming may be detected:

1. Streaming platforms often receive different master files from labels. A "Hi-Res" stream may use a different master than your local rip. Watermarking is sometimes embedded in streaming files for copyright tracking. Local files are entirely under your control without hidden processing.
2. Streaming apps may apply loudness normalization by default, altering the dynamic range unless manually disabled.
3. Local rips (FLAC/ALAC) bypass the proprietary cloud-ingestion algorithms that format files for streaming servers.
4. Using local USB drive for music playback is simply one less process in the chain. You control quality of the source material and no networking transmission step is needed.

Variations in mastering, digital processing, software playback layers, and network delivery can introduce audible differences. The considerable variables introduced with streaming, disappear with local playback.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Thank you for all these sharings here.

I simultaneously feel that streaming is so great and so cheap,
it is impossible, almost strange, not to use it, and as some of
you say here, it is also a means to discover new music.

On the same time, having something physical like a CD is very nice.
I suppose as some people say here that when there is an album that is
so good, why not buy it in a CD format, because there is something
very nice in today world about shutting all the connections off
and take a CD and play, being totally disconnected !

It is a bit like walking in the high mountains where not
even the cell phone will work anymore.

And when I see all the used CD's being sold for such
incredible prices, finally it is not so expensive
to build up a CD library.

And the CD players are also, like everything in HiFi,
becoming more affordable like the Onkyo C30.

I might even get crazy one day and try Vinyl again,
of course, not for the sound, just for the fun and nostalgia !

 

[goat76]

In a perfect world there should be no difference between playing local music off USB drive and listening to a streaming service like Qobuz, Apple or Tidal. However, in the real world it adds one more step that the music needs to go through to reach your ears. Below are some factors why an audio difference between local music playback and streaming may be detected:

1. Streaming platforms often receive different master files from labels. A "Hi-Res" stream may use a different master than your local rip. Watermarking is sometimes embedded in streaming files for copyright tracking. Local files are entirely under your control without hidden processing.
2. Streaming apps may apply loudness normalization by default, altering the dynamic range unless manually disabled.
3. Local rips (FLAC/ALAC) bypass the proprietary cloud-ingestion algorithms that format files for streaming servers.
4. Using local USB drive for music playback is simply one less process in the chain. You control quality of the source material and no networking transmission step is needed.

Variations in mastering, digital processing, software playback layers, and network delivery can introduce audible differences. The considerable variables introduced with streaming, disappear with local playback.

1. Yes, a different master will of course sound different, but that shouldn't be the reason why you find Apple Music and Tidal to sound less clear in general. Or do you mean that only some albums sound less clear, while other albums sound the same?

2. Qobuz doesn't use any normalization, and the normalization Apple Music uses doesn't apply any limitation or compression. So, granted that the same masters are played, you only need to level-match the streaming to the same level as your locally stored music files to make it sound equally clear.

3 and 4. As I said in a previous post, I have done a null test with the result of complete silence between a rip from Tidal and a CD rip. I would expect the same to be the case with a rip from Qobuz and Apple Music, granted that the same master is compared.

 

[ivayvr]

Here is what Google says about the rates paid to the artists:

Top Streaming Payout Rates (Approximate):

• Peloton: ~$0.03 per stream.
• Qobuz: ~$0.0136 per stream.
• Tidal: ~$0.0125 per stream.
• Apple Music: ~$0.0061–$0.008 per stream.
• Amazon Music: ~$0.0096 per stream.
• Spotify: ~$0.002–$0.004 per stream

 

[Redacted]

You can be sure however, that the same file played off a USB stick (or drive) on your DAC/amp unit, is bit-identical to the same file coming across your LAN from say a NAS, via either SMB or DLNA.... You can test this yourself if your system allows you to write files onto the USB drive from a PC etc (you can check the files with Foobar2K). The network part is not relevant.

 

[MatrixS2000]

network delivery can introduce audible differences.

The network will not introduce audible differences. This is easy to prove. RME provides a bit test that can test the quality of any link. I can place that bit test file on google drive, for example, to simulate internet streaming and play it back. The result:

Proof that the network did not impact the file. The steamed file was a bit perfect reproduction of the original file - that message will not appear on the screen if it is not bit perfect.

 

[Redacted]

The network will not introduce audible differences. This is easy to prove. RME provides a bit test that can test the quality of any link. I can place that bit test file on google drive, for example, to simulate internet streaming and play it back.
Proof that the network did not impact the file. The steamed file was a bit perfect reproduction of the original file - that message will not appear on the screen if it is not bit perfect.

yes, it was all made up!
Now, where did I put my solid gold WiFi antennae?

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

The network will not introduce audible differences. This is easy to prove. RME provides a bit test that can test the quality of any link. I can place that bit test file on google drive, for example, to simulate internet streaming and play it back. The result:

View attachment 532392

Proof that the network did not impact the file. The steamed file was a bit perfect reproduction of the original file - that message will not appear on the screen if it is not bit perfect.

Dear Matrix. What equipment let you test this ? Is there any other low-cost easy way to test this ?

 

[Open Mind Audio]

Embarassingly, I have Spotify Premium (for family members), Qobuz (5+ years), and Tidal (about 6 months), and only recently eliminated the premium Amazon music service. I notice no difference on quality. Need to keep Spotify for my wife and daughter but will settle on either Qobuz or Tiday here soon.

Tidal's selling point is, in theory, it's strong lineup of Atmos mixes plus that I can play Tidal Atmos directly on my Denon AVR - but I find many of the mixes kinda suck, with heavy overemphasis on the height channels. If I can work that out, I may keep Tidal, otherwise I'll bail on it and revert strictly to Qobuz, which has always worked well for me.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Dear Matrix. What equipment let you test this ? Is there any other low-cost easy way to test this ?

All you need is an RME ADI-2 FS DAC. RME supplies the bit test files and also other useful test software.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

thank you,
but +600 to test the signal, I will go the route :
hope everything is fine

 

[Tre2023]

Embarassingly, I have Spotify Premium (for family members), Qobuz (5+ years), and Tidal (about 6 months), and only recently eliminated the premium Amazon music service. I notice no difference on quality. Need to keep Spotify for my wife and daughter but will settle on either Qobuz or Tiday here soon.

Tidal's selling point is, in theory, it's strong lineup of Atmos mixes plus that I can play Tidal Atmos directly on my Denon AVR - but I find many of the mixes kinda suck, with heavy overemphasis on the height channels. If I can work that out, I may keep Tidal, otherwise I'll bail on it and revert strictly to Qobuz, which has always worked well for me.

Have

Embarassingly, I have Spotify Premium (for family members), Qobuz (5+ years), and Tidal (about 6 months), and only recently eliminated the premium Amazon music service. I notice no difference on quality. Need to keep Spotify for my wife and daughter but will settle on either Qobuz or Tiday here soon.

Tidal's selling point is, in theory, it's strong lineup of Atmos mixes plus that I can play Tidal Atmos directly on my Denon AVR - but I find many of the mixes kinda suck, with heavy overemphasis on the height channels. If I can work that out, I may keep Tidal, otherwise I'll bail on it and revert strictly to Qobuz, which has always worked well for me.

Has HEOS in Denon/Marantz units been updated to support Tidal’s Dolby Atmos tracks or are you using an external device connected to the Denon to stream them?

 

[Shiva]

I dig Tidal and use it everyday.. the sheer scale of its library, Vast... Even when one wants to test its library by searching for the Dagar Brothers singing Dhrupad...it is there as well....