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Q) When does Steve Guttenberg like active speakers?

RayDunzl

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https://www.elac.com/product/navis-arb-61/

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JJB70

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Recently I've been looking at active, preferably wireless, speakers as a possible replacement primary home system and something that surprised me is just how many audiophile speaker companies offer such products as well as the more professional monitor focused speaker manufacturers. KEF, Dynaudio, DALI, Meridian, Acoustic Energy and others all have offerings as well as the higher profile outfits who have really been pushing active speakers such as B&O. Which makes me question whether the audiophile micro-bubble inhabited by magazines and reviewers is an even smaller bubble than I thought and that the studious avoidance of active designs and continuing focus on passive designs and traditional components is not as firmly entrenched as I assume?
 

watchnerd

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So far the only "killer feature" I'm seeing relative to a set of $2K powered pro monitors is the "AirX(2) Wireless".

Whatever that is.

Answer - when they cost a shed load of cash. Oops, little bit of cynicism there......

$2K isn't that bad.....just a hair under the KEF LS50W.

If he likes more expensive, and powered, maybe he should try these, at $6k/pair:

dynaudio_core_59_vertical_03.jpg
 

BigVU's

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I just finally had to go down and look at a Hi Fi shop. Been many many many years. Boy have they changed. Well at least the one I went to. I was a little disappointed to say the least. I thought I'd walk in and see hi-fi glory with speakers and demo set ups everywhere. Nope, one room and no selection of amps.

Anyway I was shown a pair of BnW Formations - active speakers that look like little studio monitors. I admit I was surprised by how much sound was coming out of those little suckers. Who needs a sub woofer. Impressive! Plug them in a wall, synch a song from the iphone, all one needed, they were that good.

Though not for me as much as I liked the sound I have an opposing view to the unobtrusive angle. Where is the beef? Where is the HI FI? Where o Where did they go? :)
 
OP
invaderzim

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Recently I've been looking at active, preferably wireless, speakers as a possible replacement primary home system and something that surprised me is just how many audiophile speaker companies offer such products as well as the more professional monitor focused speaker manufacturers. KEF, Dynaudio, DALI, Meridian, Acoustic Energy and others all have offerings as well as the higher profile outfits who have really been pushing active speakers such as B&O. Which makes me question whether the audiophile micro-bubble inhabited by magazines and reviewers is an even smaller bubble than I thought and that the studious avoidance of active designs and continuing focus on passive designs and traditional components is not as firmly entrenched as I assume?

From what I see the manufactures have to adapt and offer them because demand is growing while the reviewers and magazines tend to dislike them because they take the mysticism out of audio.

The shopper no longer needs someone to tell them which collection of components they need because the manufacture put them all inside one box. And how does a magazine or reviewer tell people that they need to 'upgrade' to the latest DAC, cable, power cord or other component when they are all built into the speaker. You buy them, plug them in and listen to them. Bose realized that people wanted it to be that simple decades ago.

For the speaker manufactures it seems like a no-brainer because they don't risk having people connect their speakers to amps that are either inferior or just can't handle the speaker and then blame the speaker for the problem.
 

Johnb

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Considering what poor noise and distortion numbers we get from consumer amplifiers, and even audiophile ones, I have always been distrustful about what class of amp is packaged inside the speaks. When one considers that even $1000 AV receivers many times use lower end dacs, that is also cause for concern.

There are inherent advantages associated with tailoring freq response with active crossover or even sound processing. Could be great. Question is, is it?
 

Kal Rubinson

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Which makes me question whether the audiophile micro-bubble inhabited by magazines and reviewers is an even smaller bubble than I thought and that the studious avoidance of active designs and continuing focus on passive designs and traditional components is not as firmly entrenched as I assume?
Not all magazines/revewers have ignored them.
 

Daverz

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It seems to me the high-end press has been quite welcoming of active speaker systems, with glowing reviews of systems from NHT, B&O, KEF, Dynaudio, Emerald Physics, Kii, Dutch & Dutch, and now the Navis. There's probably some I'm forgetting. They don't tend to review pro active monitors that are not sold in hi-end shops.
 

LTig

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Answer - when they cost a shed load of cash. Oops, little bit of cynicism there......
... and are all analog inside - who wants this digital grainy shit inside his beautiful speakers anyway:p
 

Ilkless

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I was seriously considering the Navis but the choice of a tiny midwoofer perplexes me. It is precisely the use of a coax that allows larger CtC spacing without as much vertical lobing because sound path length differences are small compared to the wavelengths at the crossover region. Puzzling packaging. The R3 form factor is the sweet spot but I'm loathe to continue with passive, and the best direct-radiating coax drivers are all proprietary (Genelec, KEF, Technics, ELAC), so we are held to their odd packaging choices (eg the Navis) or their need to appeal to the legacy hifi demographic (eg. with passives)
 

garbulky

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Cortes

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I was seriously considering the Navis but the choice of a tiny midwoofer perplexes me. It is precisely the use of a coax that allows larger CtC spacing without as much vertical lobing because sound path length differences are small compared to the wavelengths at the crossover region. Puzzling packaging. The R3 form factor is the sweet spot but I'm loathe to continue with passive, and the best direct-radiating coax drivers are all proprietary (Genelec, KEF, Technics, ELAC), so we are held to their odd packaging choices (eg the Navis) or their need to appeal to the legacy hifi demographic (eg. with passives)

@Ilkless,

I've the impression that room correction with GLM 3 might (I don't know) put the Genelec SAMs above the rest.
Maybe a cheaper 8340/8330+GLM3 is better than the Navis. Of course, the more expensive coax 8331/8341 should be in another league.

I think proper room correction is important and it turns out that most of active speakers just put some funny eq bottoms to do that. You can do the same from any software, but that's not serious room correction.
 

Ilkless

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@Ilkless,

I've the impression that room correction with GLM 3 might (I don't know) put the Genelec SAMs above the rest.
Maybe a cheaper 8340/8330+GLM3 is better than the Navis. Of course, the more expensive coax 8331/8341 should be in another league.

I think proper room correction is important and it turns out that most of active speakers just put some funny eq bottoms to do that. You can do the same from any software, but that's not serious room correction.


I want a coax design for the superior vertical polars (and more generally, overall directivity and coherence). But none hit the sweet spot for form factor, quality and features for me. As I said, I like the KEF R3 form factor (6.5-inch woofer + a ~4-5 inch coax) as it takes the brunt of the excursion away from the midrange driver, gives good vertical polars and for my apartment, sufficient bass extension and SPL. I also really enjoyed auditioning the R3 and R300 previously. Yet nobody with a good coax driver (Technics, Genelec, KEF and ELAC) has an active option in that form factor. I suppose I could go LS50W with subs, but I don't like the pricing, prefer an outboard streamer (fine with DSP crossovers and amping internally), and would rather like a dedicated midrange.
 

Cortes

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I want a coax design for the superior vertical polars (and more generally, overall directivity and coherence). But none hit the sweet spot for form factor, quality and features for me. As I said, I like the KEF R3 form factor (6.5-inch woofer + a ~4-5 inch coax) as it takes the brunt of the excursion away from the midrange driver, gives good vertical polars and for my apartment, sufficient bass extension and SPL. I also really enjoyed auditioning the R3 and R300 previously. Yet nobody with a good coax driver (Technics, Genelec, KEF and ELAC) has an active option in that form factor. I suppose I could go LS50W with subs, but I don't like the pricing, prefer an outboard streamer (fine with DSP crossovers and amping internally), and would rather like a dedicated midrange.

The Genelec 8341 has similar form factor to the Navis, the 8331 is smaller. However, they are much more expensive.
 

Ilkless

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The Genelec 8341 has similar form factor to the Navis, the 8331 is smaller. However, they are much more expensive.

Aware of the Ones - which are well out of my price range for now (and if I could afford it, I'd seriously consider making the jump to 8Cs instead). I was referring to the R3/R300 form factor - which is in between 8341 and 8351 I suppose, depending on whether we consider membrane area or internal volume.
 
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