Q: Do I need a pre-amp between a streamer-DAC and my power amplifier?

[martijn86]

Thanks for taking the time to read my question. My current setup is a Marantz AVR (I know right), into a Hypex nCore Dual Mono power amplifier to two B&W towers. The reason for the AVR is that it is a one-box solutions and a central hub for all of my entertainment. It has however become very clear to me that it is starting to become the weakest link and AVR's in general score poorly in measurements.

Luckily my TV has enough HDMI inputs to accommodate at least a gameconsole and a laptop. So that opens up the opportunity to replace the AVR with something capable of receiving a digital input and being able to stream. Budget <€1000,-. Naturally (going from top to bottom on the sinad chart) I gravitate towards the Matrix Element I.

Can I just hook up the Matrix Element (or another DAC streamer) to my power amplifier without a pre-amp? Will I be missing out?

 

[cjm2077]

Thanks for taking the time to read my question. My current setup is a Marantz AVR (I know right), into a Hypex nCore Dual Mono power amplifier to two B&W towers. The reason for the AVR is that it is a one-box solutions and a central hub for all of my entertainment. It has however become very clear to me that it is starting to become the weakest link and AVR's in general score poorly in measurements.

Luckily my TV has enough HDMI inputs to accommodate at least a gameconsole and a laptop. So that opens up the opportunity to replace the AVR with something capable of receiving a digital input and being able to stream. Budget <€1000,-. Naturally (going from top to bottom on the sinad chart) I gravitate towards the Matrix Element I.

Can I just hook up the Matrix Element (or another DAC streamer) to my power amplifier without a pre-amp? Will I be missing out?

That product has a volume control and multiple digital inputs from what I understand, so it should work just fine into your power amps.

 

[Daverz]

I think one of the Topping DACs with volume control and balanced outputs (I assume the Hypex modules have XLR inputs) would do just as well.

 

[cjm2077]

I think one of the Topping DACs with volume control and balanced outputs (I assume the Hypex modules have XLR inputs) would do just as well.

Do any of those have the streaming capability he wanted?

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm always wary of going straight from dac to power amp with no physical volume knob in the way. If the cat/kid/butt cheek pushes the dac volume to max, the power amps are full tilt to the speakers.

But it will work.

 

[martijn86]

I'm always wary of going straight from DAC to power amp with no physical volume knob in the way. If the cat/kid/butt cheek pushes the DAC volume to max, the power amps are full tilt to the speakers.

But it will work.

Is there any degradation of the sound when using the -presumably- digital volume control of a DAC? I'm wondering what @MatrixAudio would recommend.

I'm not worried about my kid, she's more careful than my dog and dogs lack fingers so that's convenient. Fish are safe right?

 

[Daverz]

Do any of those have the streaming capability he wanted?

My recommendation is to get a Raspberry Pi 4. With case, power supply, and microSD card, it won't run you more than $70.

 

[RayDunzl]

Can I just hook up the Matrix Element (or another DAC streamer) to my power amplifier without a pre-amp?

It looks like the Matrix it will do what you want.

A "traditional" preamp, as a minimum feature set, provides switching between inputs and volume control. It has those features.


Other local links here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...&q=Matrix+Element&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

Is there any degradation of the sound when using the -presumably- digital volume control of a DAC?

No degradation that you are likely to notice, more accuracy than typical analog control.

 

[Dvass13]

I run my Element X straight to my power amp with no issues. I have the Element X within arm's reach for easy headphone use and volume control. The power amp is across the room. The setup is very simple and easy to use.

 

[martijn86]

Do any of those have the streaming capability he wanted?

SMSL Topping does specify on their website literally that the Topping D90 has the ability to be connected straight to a power amp. [1]
In terms of purchasing advice however, I see no mention of Spotify Connect, Tidal, Qobuz etc.

My recommendation is to get a Raspberry Pi 4. With case, power supply, and micro SD card, it won't run you more than $70.

Thanks for the suggestions but I want this to be less of a project and more of a living room friendly, high quality solution with a warranty and support. Don't get me wrong, I love a project like that just for messing about and maybe use it in the office if it works but the living room needs to be less cluttered IMO.

More accuracy

I'm triggered. I may want this sooner than my bank account will allow me.

I run my Element X straight to my power amp with no issues. I have the Element X within arm's reach for easy headphone use and volume control. The power amp is across the room. The setup is very simple and easy to use.

You my man! You know exactly what I need to hear. I like my setup the way I like my sound, free from noise and distortion. Simple, high quality. SO all my brain has to do is listen to the music.


I have a fantasy about having a top tier Matrix Audio, with a top tier Hypex nCore feeding horns. Every step is one step closer... Thanks for all your contributions @cjm2077, @Daverz, @Jimbob54, @RayDunzl and @Dvass13.

 

[Jimbob54]

Is there any degradation of the sound when using the -presumably- digital volume control of a DAC? I'm wondering what @MatrixAudio would recommend.

I'm not worried about my kid, she's more careful than my dog and dogs lack fingers so that's convenient. Fish are safe right?

Not if you keep them on top of your hifi

 

[martijn86]

Not if you keep them on top of your hifi

Noooo noo they'd have to leap 5,5m out of a covered aquarium. Furthest any every came was into the filter. RIP Capt. Red Fin.

 

[Daverz]

Thanks for the suggestions but I want this to be less of a project and more of a living room friendly, high quality solution with a warranty and support. Don't get me wrong, I love a project like that just for messing about and maybe use it in the office if it works but the living room needs to be less cluttered IMO.

I know where you're coming from, but, honestly, it's not a "project" unless you want it to be. The RPi snaps into its case. No even any screws. That's all the assembly it needs.

Burn your streaming software of choice to the microSD, insert it, plug the RPi into your network, apply power, check your router for the IP address. Most software has at least a web browser based interface, so you just navigate there and then point the software at your music.

Will take an hour with time for drinks and snacks.

There are several options for the software. I prefer Logitech Media Server (LMS) with piCorePlayer. LMS is very mature, easy to install and get started, but also very flexible. You can run LMS on the RPi or a NAS or PC elsewhere on your network. But there are other choices like Volumio.

 

[MPA1]

I get excellent results from going straight to my power amps with the matrix X sabre pro mqa.

 

[MatrixAudio]

Is there any degradation of the sound when using the -presumably- digital volume control of a DAC? I'm wondering what @MatrixAudio would recommend.

I'm not worried about my kid, she's more careful than my dog and dogs lack fingers so that's convenient. Fish are safe right?

Theoretically, digital volume attenuation reduces dynamic range and SNR.
But under normal circumstances, if the digital volume at higher than -30 or -20dB provides a suitable sound pressure (it's related to your power amp or speakers), you can ignore it.
To change a word, the more digital volume attenuated, the more dynamic range and SNR reduced.