Purifi worth it?

[Chromatischism]

Have an NCore NC252MP, but am wanting 3 channels to bring my center speaker into the fold. My options are adding a mono NCore or selling the stereo amp and getting a 3-channel Purifi. What would you do?

The NCore amps will give full power at 1.4v

The Purifi will give full power at 2.2v

I can provide the 2 volts from my Denon X4500H left and right channels, but from what I understand the center will clip at 1.4 volts.

I am unsure where 1.4 volts is on the Purifi's power curve, but I don't need anywhere near 400 watts, so even half of that is enough. My max volume tends to be -10 from reference driving 4 ohm speakers.

Thoughts?

 

[restorer-john]

Have an NCore NC252MP, but am wanting 3 channels to bring my center speaker into the fold. My options are adding a mono NCore or selling the stereo amp and getting a 3-channel Purifi. What would you do?

The NCore amps will give full power at 1.4v

The Purifi will give full power at 2.2v

I can provide the 2 volts from my Denon X4500H left and right channels, but from what I understand the center will clip at 1.4 volts.

I am unsure where 1.4 volts is on the Purifi's power curve, but I don't need anywhere near 400 watts, so even half of that is enough.

Thoughts?

You'll need a Purifi build with a buffer/gain stage. The Denon won't get anywhere near enough swing into an unbuffered Purifi module.

Just get another NC252MP build and run it single channel. You never know when you might need another channel and you'll have a spare.

 

[Chromatischism]

You'll need a Purifi build with a buffer/gain stage. The Denon won't get anywhere near enough swing into an unbuffered Purifi module.

Just get another NC252MP build and run it single channel. You never know when you might need another channel and you'll have a spare.

Here's what I'm looking at. 25.3 dB gain.

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-T400ET Power Amplifier Class D 3 Channels Purifi 1ET400A 3x400W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

We are proud to offer you the AUDIOPHONICS HPA-T400ET, a 3 way class D power amplifier based on three PURIFI 1ET400A modules. This ready-to-use version is aimed at audiophiles who want to equip themselves with a foolproof amplification solution.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[Rottmannash]

Not sure what the Audiophonics amp sells for in $ but the 3 ch Buckeye Purifi I ordered with 3 level gain, auto on, 12 V trigger was $1700.

 

[Chromatischism]

My other option is this.

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-Q250NC Power Amplifier Class D 4 Channel NCore NC252MP 4x250W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics HPA-Q250NC is a four-channel amplifier based on two Hypex Ncore NC252MP.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[chips666]

Another NC252MP will do the job Audible differences are very small
For the peace of mind and when your budget allows it i would go for the Purifi
Enjoy...

 

[sweetchaos]

Is purifi worth it from technical superiority over hypex ncore? Yes

Is purifi worth it from audibility over hypex ncore? doubt it.

If I had the budget, purifi, and never have to think about upgrading!

Would I get purifi and less than excellent speakers? Nope. Speakers are much more important. I'll take excellent speakers with hypex ncore amps, with a budget in mind.

FYI... Genelec amps have like 80dB SINAD.
Look how well they perform. I doubt many people dislike Genelecs because of their less than stellar amps.

 

[KMO]

Have an NCore NC252MP, but am wanting 3 channels to bring my center speaker into the fold. My options are adding a mono NCore or selling the stereo amp and getting a 3-channel Purifi. What would you do?

The NCore amps will give full power at 1.4v

The Purifi will give full power at 2.2v

Don't think your numbers are right here for the NC252MP. (Not that it really changes the question or answer)

NC252MP sensitivity is 1.66 Vrms for 250W @ 4 ohms, or 1.82 Vrms for 150W @ 8 ohms. Not sure where you're getting 1.4V from.

The Purifi amp you're looking at has 25.3dB gain, almost exactly the same as the NC252MP (25.6dB).

It then has sensitivity of 2.24 Vrms for 425W @ 4 ohms, or 2.31 Vrms for 250W @ 8 ohms.

I would say that the gain is a bit low, in isolation. If buying a set of Purifi's, I'd want higher gain. I use Apollon with my AVR, which is switchable between 27.5dB and 29dB (or 20.5 or 12.8), and I use 27.5.

HOWEVER, you'd be combining it with the NC252MP. In which case, you aren't going to be pushing it that hard.

Turning the volume up to the point you're hitting distortion (not clipping!) in the Denon's pre-outs for the Purifi, you're already clipping the NC252MP. (Assuming equal trim and peak levels across L/C/R - average might not be, but peak typically would be).

You're not going to be running one channel at 250W levels when the others are only capable of 150W. (Unless that channel is much further away with high trim? Or maybe if you're a "turn centre up" person?)

I know there's a lot of talk about channel content not being equal - centre > L/R > surrounds. But that is average, not peak, so it's more relevant to, I don't know, expenditure or thermal dissipation. It doesn't really follow through to amplifier peak capability.

Plus just having matching gain on all your amps is a nice convenience. Stops you getting confused when looking at AVR trims.

 

[Vacceo]

Is purifi worth it from technical superiority over hypex ncore? Yes

Is purifi worth it from audibility over hypex ncore? doubt it.

If I had the budget, purifi, and never have to think about upgrading!

Would I get purifi and less than excellent speakers? Nope. Speakers are much more important. I'll take excellent speakers with hypex ncore amps, with a budget in mind.

FYI... Genelec amps have like 80dB SINAD.
Look how well they perform. I doubt many people dislike Genelecs because of their less than stellar amps.

That was my thought with the LS50 WII too. I'm sure the amp is not stellar, but the end sound is very nice.

However, heat may be an issue and that's where Purifi may be a meaningful difference.

 

[Rottmannash]

Don't think your numbers are right here for the NC252MP. (Not that it really changes the question or answer)

NC252MP sensitivity is 1.66 Vrms for 250W @ 4 ohms, or 1.82 Vrms for 150W @ 8 ohms. Not sure where you're getting 1.4V from.

The Purifi amp you're looking at has 25.3dB gain, almost exactly the same as the NC252MP (25.6dB).

It then has sensitivity of 2.24 Vrms for 425W @ 4 ohms, or 2.31 Vrms for 250W @ 8 ohms.

I would say that the gain is a bit low, in isolation. If buying a set of Purifi's, I'd want higher gain. I use Apollon with my AVR, which is switchable between 27.5dB and 29dB (or 20.5 or 12.8), and I use 27.5.

HOWEVER, you'd be combining it with the NC252MP. In which case, you aren't going to be pushing it that hard.

Turning the volume up to the point you're hitting distortion (not clipping!) in the Denon's pre-outs for the Purifi, you're already clipping the NC252MP. (Assuming equal trim and peak levels across L/C/R - average might not be, but peak typically would be).

You're not going to be running one channel at 250W levels when the others are only capable of 150W. (Unless that channel is much further away with high trim? Or maybe if you're a "turn centre up" person?)

I know there's a lot of talk about channel content not being equal - centre > L/R > surrounds. But that is average, not peak, so it's more relevant to, I don't know, expenditure or thermal dissipation. It doesn't really follow through to amplifier peak capability.

Plus just having matching gain on all your amps is a nice convenience. Stops you getting confused when looking at AVR trims.

the gain mismatch is one of the reasons I've ordered a Buckeye Purifi 3 channel to replace my VTV Purifi which is running L/R as the new Buckeye has a board with 3 gain levels.

 

[Chromatischism]

Don't think your numbers are right here for the NC252MP. (Not that it really changes the question or answer)

NC252MP sensitivity is 1.66 Vrms for 250W @ 4 ohms, or 1.82 Vrms for 150W @ 8 ohms. Not sure where you're getting 1.4V from.

The Purifi amp you're looking at has 25.3dB gain, almost exactly the same as the NC252MP (25.6dB).

It then has sensitivity of 2.24 Vrms for 425W @ 4 ohms, or 2.31 Vrms for 250W @ 8 ohms.

I would say that the gain is a bit low, in isolation. If buying a set of Purifi's, I'd want higher gain. I use Apollon with my AVR, which is switchable between 27.5dB and 29dB (or 20.5 or 12.8), and I use 27.5.

HOWEVER, you'd be combining it with the NC252MP. In which case, you aren't going to be pushing it that hard.

You're not going to be running one channel at 250W levels when the others are only capable of 150W. (Unless that channel is much further away with high trim? Or maybe if you're a "turn centre up" person?)

I know there's a lot of talk about channel content not being equal - centre > L/R > surrounds. But that is average, not peak, so it's more relevant to, I don't know, expenditure or thermal dissipation. It doesn't really follow through to amplifier peak capability.

Plus just having matching gain on all your amps is a nice convenience. Stops you getting confused when looking at AVR trims.

I wouldn't have amps with different gains. I would have 3 of the same amp channels.

You're right about the 1.66v for the NC252MP, but the Purifi numbers I took from the page linked above.

To suit all uses we opted for 3 gain settings, adjustable by jumper on the interface card :

Gain of + 7.2dB, for a total of 20dB- Maximum power reached with a signal of ~ 4.2V RMS

Gain of + 12.5dB, for a total of 25.3dB (default) - Maximum power reached with a signal of ~ 2.2V RMS

Bypass: in this case the signal passes directly from the inputs to the modules, allowing the lowest possible gain of 12.8dB. This mode can be interesting when using a powerful preamplifier, capable of driving a load of 2 to 4kOhm and reaching a voltage of ~ 10V RMS

Turning the volume up to the point you're hitting distortion (not clipping!) in the Denon's pre-outs for the Purifi, you're already clipping the NC252MP. (Assuming equal trim and peak levels across L/C/R - average might not be, but peak typically would be).

This sounds like a point in favor of Purifi?

 

[KMO]

Ah, sorry, I misread the question - I was thinking you were considering adding a mono Purifi to the 252MP for the centre, so what I wrote may not make total sense.

But yes, given that the prospective amps have the same gain, ~25.5dB, they would work equally well with the Denon at the same levels - they're both a tad on the low side, what with the internal amps being 29dB, but basically fine.

The Denon would start encountering its "overloading the internal amps" distortion effects by the time you get into the extra power of the Purifi over the NCore - the volume levels the NCore couldn't achieve - but I think that distortion is sometimes overblown. At those levels, the speaker distortion is going to dominate, tbh...

If you were buying the Purifi specifically for its extra power, or the NC502MP, I'd worry more about the gain/sensitivity, but if you're intending the same listening levels you're currently using with the NC252MP, then there's no issue.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Have an NCore NC252MP, but am wanting 3 channels to bring my center speaker into the fold. My options are adding a mono NCore or selling the stereo amp and getting a 3-channel Purifi. What would you do?

The NCore amps will give full power at 1.4v

The Purifi will give full power at 2.2v

I can provide the 2 volts from my Denon X4500H left and right channels, but from what I understand the center will clip at 1.4 volts.

I am unsure where 1.4 volts is on the Purifi's power curve, but I don't need anywhere near 400 watts, so even half of that is enough. My max volume tends to be -10 from reference driving 4 ohm speakers.

Thoughts?

As for NC252 vs. Purifi 1ET400A I've owned both in stereo versions for my main system. That Hypex and the Purifi are very similar in sonic character; perhaps the Purifi sounds a tiny bit better driven by SOTA DAC and preamp, but by the Denon receiver, you won't notice a difference in sound quality.

 

[SIY]

As for NC252 vs. Purifi 1ET400A I've owned both in stereo versions for my main system…perhaps the Purifi sounds a tiny bit better driven by SOTA DAC and preamp…

Or perhaps not.

I compared Purifi to Ncore level matched, and they were indistinguishable.

 

[Chromatischism]

The Denon would start encountering its "overloading the internal amps" distortion effects by the time you get into the extra power of the Purifi over the NCore - the volume levels the NCore couldn't achieve - but I think that distortion is sometimes overblown. At those levels, the speaker distortion is going to dominate, tbh...

I tend to agree. We know that the Denon puts out 2v to FL and FR when MV = beyond reference level. When does it reach 1.4v? This is important because the center channel isn't fixed by setting the AVR to 11.1ch mode like FL and FR are. So the center will clip well before the others. Knowing what that is would help me not exceed it. I'm surprised no one has measured this.

 

[KMO]

I tend to agree. We know that the Denon puts out 2v to FL and FR when MV = beyond reference level. When does it reach 1.4v?

Assuming that the gain structure hasn't changed since my old Denon I have the service manual for (and everything I've seen makes me believe it hasn't), then 1.4 Vrms would be -1dBFS at MV = 0 (all trims zero, direct mode). Or 0dBFS at MV = -1. You can't reach it with MV less than -1 (unless it's got a positive trim).

Working:

DAC 0dBFS = 2.0Vrms, and there's a 2dB attenuation from that to the pre-outs (at MV = 0).

1.4Vrms is 3dB down from 2.0Vrms, so given the 2dB base attenuation, you need 1dB less than 0dBFS MV=0.

 

[Chromatischism]

Thanks. I never reach those levels, so I'm not worried. I do reach -10 MV from time to time. If that means I'm always under 1.4v, I shouldn't be clipping the NCore.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I compared Purifi to Ncore level matched, and they were indistinguishable.

Same here.

Had both Purifi (Apollon Purifi Mini) and many Ncore amps on hands for testing (NC122/252/250/500MP, NC500 OEM) and didn't find any difference when listened at the same level.

@Chromatischism That being said, their behaviour regarding Gain and max SPL before clipping differed quite a bit each others. It also seems that 1ET400A deals better with low impedances. It is technically a better module than NC252MP, no debate. If you're seeking for higher SPL, depending of the LP distance and your speakers, then yes, it still may be an audible upgrade.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Or perhaps not.

I compared Purifi to Ncore level matched, and they were indistinguishable.

Ah, but you're biased not to hear differences ... so ...

 

[Thomas savage]

Or perhaps not.

I compared Purifi to Ncore level matched, and they were indistinguishable.

Ah but you ears were full of Cork from the non state of the art DAC you were using .

Plus your bias towards not believing, so I think we can discount this ' subjectivists ' musing .

Anyone with brains should know purifi is cleaner and gets better whites at 30c .

Just imagen how clean your tighty whites would be if Bruno designed the washing machine motor .. of course SIY here will never know true white cotton underpants , he likely prefers his pubes pulled away from his center by the static electric charge from his easy wash , quick drying synthetic undergarments .