Purifi vs Hypex vs ICEPower

[Tom C]

Hello,

Well, if you like a particular type or mixture of distortion, that is fine. But, most of us want to hear exactly what the band and their engineer wanted us to hear. That is what we are striving for and testing for. But whatever floats your boat, just don't expect everyone else to jump onboard with your tastes.

Greg

+1. If you aren’t bothered by noise and distortion, or if you prefer a particular level or type, then you will think an amp with higher levels of them will sound better.
As it turns out, most people prefer the sound of lower noise and lower distortion. That is, they know what sound they like, and it is not any sound added by the amp. That is a subjective impression based on comparative listening.
Quite far from being inefficient, decision making based on measurements increases the efficiency of decision making. That is it’s purpose and main benefit. Especially so in this age of no more brick and mortar.
Now, this is a harsh reality for those who like to endlessly argue over things that can never be proven or disproven. It is also bad news for those who profit handsomely from deceiving the consumer. But since I fit into neither category…

 

[rdenney]

Just answering the question, and ignoring this week's "measurements are not enough and ASR posters are mean" troll...

If the amp you have now, which is perfectly decent, lacks power, just get a more powerful amp. Done. The Hypex NC500-based products put out over 200 watts into 8 ohms at minimum distortion (0.002%) and more like 350 watts at 1% distortion.

The Purifi 1ET400A is cleaner (mostly likely inaudibly so), but I don't think will be enough more powerful than what you have to be worth the switch, if what you have is inadequate.

Both of the above are available from Audiophonics in France.

Amir tested some input buffers--can't put my fingers on it right now--and found that the stock eval buffers were as good as or better than the aftermarket buffers.

I am using an amp assembled in the USA that uses a Hypex NC502MP (same specs as the NC500 monoblocks sold by Audiophonics but in a stereo form with a single power supply). I just received it recently and have compared it with a B&K Reference 125.2, which is no slouch by any measure. The B&K is rated into 8 ohms at 125 watts plus a 1.2-dB headroom. The 502, measured at the point of onset of minimal clipping and again at 1% distortion puts out 220 and 350 watts, respectively. That is enough to make a difference--at the same very loud level, the 502 is less strained and compressed by a bit. That's the difference I think you should expect going from the Cambridge Audio amp to something in the 500-watt (nominal at 1% distortion into 4 ohms) class. Purifi isn't quite that powerful.

There are other far more expensive ways to add power. None will be as small, light, and cool-running as these.

Rick "lack of power is audible; distortion levels offered by these choices is probably not" Denney

 

[Holmz]

Hello,

Well, if you like a particular type or mixture of distortion, that is fine. But, most of us want to hear exactly what the band and their engineer wanted us to hear. That is what we are striving for and testing for. But whatever floats your boat, just don't expect everyone else to jump onboard with your tastes.

Greg

Seriously? (Are you on meds)

I have been arguing the side of measurements over subjectiveness.
I drop not know how you conjur that into my liking distortion and noise.

But my English is not great so if you show me where I did that, then that would be great.

 

[Andykay]

Hello,

Well, if you like a particular type or mixture of distortion, that is fine. But, most of us want to hear exactly what the band and their engineer wanted us to hear. That is what we are striving for and testing for. But whatever floats your boat, just don't expect everyone else to jump onboard with your tastes.

Greg

I don't have either, there were examples of amps that sound good but don't measure well. All the positive reviews of these can't be wrong. I reiterate, buying on specs is shallow. If you go into a high-end audio gear shop , the one I go to is also a studio with a Studio Engineer, you won't find much of what I see in the SINAD charts. Not will you find much other than class D , which is fine, but certainly not a mixed chart of different product designs.

 

[MaxBuck]

I don't have either, there were examples of amps that sound good but don't measure well. All the positive reviews of these can't be wrong. I reiterate, buying on specs is shallow. If you go into a high-end audio gear shop , the one I go to is also a studio with a Studio Engineer, you won't find much of what I see in the SINAD charts. Not will you find much other than class D , which is fine, but certainly not a mixed chart of different product designs.

Cool story.

 

[Drejfus]

I have ARTHUR 3409/N2 (Ncore) and XTZ A2-300 (ICEPower) with KEF R3 and i quite happy. although as always, I am tempted to buy something on Purifi
ARTHUR 3409/N2 its really nice, quality and automatic on/off function is big point

 

[kovaga]

I have ARTHUR 3409/N2 (Ncore) and XTZ A2-300 (ICEPower) with KEF R3 and i quite happy. although as always, I am tempted to buy something on Purifi
ARTHUR 3409/N2 its really nice, quality and automatic on/off function is big point

Does it use much energy when not operational?
I compare my Azur 840 class AB to my NAD 3045 that is powering a pair of KEF LS50 in the office, and the former consumes 90w idle, while the later uses only 15w. I would have thought that the same applied to all class D amps.

 

[board]

You should give a try with the OPA2210 that is a modern bipolar super beta OP amp, I tried it with my Purifi, Dual Tripath and TPA325X amps.
It is an amazing OP amp, fast accurate with a incredible soundstage. I did not find any faults in it. Clean, well-defined basses, a sublime midrange and very soft and well-transcribed highs.


Sounds better than any OP amp I tried (1622 / 1656 / 1612 / Muse / JRC4580 / OPA627 / Burson V5i / etc)

https://www.ti.com/product/OPA2210

You seem to be the perfect person to ask: I'm looking at buying a Purifi based amp from Nord Acoustics. Have you tried the Sonic Imagery and/or Sparkos op amps?
If so, did you (subjectively) like or prefer the sound of them as opposed to the standard OPA1612A? Do you think they're worth the extra money?

 

[pogo]

I am currently in the process of upgrading my setup and decided to go along the Class D route for the poweramp.

This purifi implementation is probably according to test reports a very good sounding one, perhaps even the best at the moment:
Link

The switchable damping factor allows you to optimize the amplifier to the speakers or to your taste.

 

[S-unny]

I have often read on ASR that a powerful amplifier, with not very sensitive speakers (<86db) helps listening even at low volumes. This is true? Or is it an audiophile legend?

Great question. I currently bought a 85 db sensitivity speaker set and am on a quest to find a matching amp ... key requirment for me is "at low vol I want the sound to fill the room" !

 

[Berlin]

I do have 85 dB speakers. At low volume differently powered amplifiers do not make any difference. However, the loudness feature of my RME ADI-2 DAC FS does...

 

[S-unny]

Good morning list,

I am currently in the process of upgrading my setup and decided to go along the Class D route for the poweramp. The question is which one to choose, as without an ability to listen to each amp and not knowing the differences in sounding between purifi, hypex and icepower boards i am presented with a difficult decision. So have to ask for the common wisdom of the forum and current owners.

There is also an option to include sparkos or sonic imagery op amp, but does it really make such a big difference and justify the extra cost?

My current setup is:
B&W 702 s2
Cambridge Audio Azur840A
Denafrips Aries II DAC
RPI 4

The idea is to replace Azur840 with a class D poweramp and get something like Denafrips Hades as a preamp, as the 120w@8ohm of azur is pushing it to drive those speakers. The setup is used to watch TV and listen to the music. The music is played at the medium level. According to the power calculators I would need about 130w max.

I read multiple opinions on the forum claiming that Purifi is a bit better then HYPEX, is that the case? As the price between the amps built by Apollon is the same for Purifi 1ET400A and Hypex NC1200.

Thanks in advance.

If I may inquire - what made you choose the Denafrips Ares II Dac ? What is your opinion about it ?
I heard about the DA II as a review done by the "british audiophile Tarun" on youtube and it has been on my buy list here in the USA.
Unfortunately it is not available to tryout.

 

[kovaga]

If I may inquire - what made you choose the Denafrips Ares II Dac ? What is your opinion about it ?
I heard about the DA II as a review done by the "british audiophile Tarun" on youtube and it has been on my buy list here in the USA.
Unfortunately it is not available to tryout.

Actually, the review by Tarun was the first review I watched about Ares 2 and I was pretty impressed, so decided to read a bit further about it and checked several other reviews that sort of were unanimous and confirmed the impression that it offers exceptional value for money. I came across one, sort neutral review, with the reviewer mentioning that it is good for music, but you can't use it when watching a TV, as it creates a noticeable delay. So I was a bit worried about it, but it turned out to be complete nonsense.

I guess I also wanted to try the R2R DAC technology, and frankly I was so impressed with the improvement in sound that went on a HiFi upgrade spree So in my opinion it is definitely worth the money and I would recommend it.

p.s. there is youtube channel "HEADquarter Audio" and the german dude there suggests some mechanical amendments to the case of the Ares that supposes to improve the sound of the DAC, but I haven't tried yet.

 

[Holmz]

… I came across one, sort neutral review, with the reviewer mentioning that it is good for music, but you can't use it when watching a TV, as it creates a noticeable delay. So I was a bit worried about it, but it turned out to be complete nonsense.

…

More than 1 TVs and modern AVR has a video delay feature, so that everything doesn’t have lips out of sync like a 1940’s foreign film.

I never understood the NTSC spec of 24.997 frames/sec and the film cameras 24 frames/sec, or the PAL 25 frames/sec.

There is not a common “least common denominator” between a few of those.

 

[raindance]

You already have a good amplifier. Acoustic treatment, room EQ or better speakers would be a better way to spend your money.

 

[S-unny]

Actually, the review by Tarun was the first review I watched about Ares 2 and I was pretty impressed, so decided to read a bit further about it and checked several other reviews that sort of were unanimous and confirmed the impression that it offers exceptional value for money. I came across one, sort neutral review, with the reviewer mentioning that it is good for music, but you can't use it when watching a TV, as it creates a noticeable delay. So I was a bit worried about it, but it turned out to be complete nonsense.

I guess I also wanted to try the R2R DAC technology, and frankly I was so impressed with the improvement in sound that went on a HiFi upgrade spree So in my opinion it is definitely worth the money and I would recommend it.

p.s. there is youtube channel "HEADquarter Audio" and the german dude there suggests some mechanical amendments to the case of the Ares that supposes to improve the sound of the DAC, but I haven't tried yet.

"small world" isnt it ! thankyou for writing back. I will check out the4 HqA youtuber. Meanwhile, I had a couple of related queries
1. why are you connecting your Tv signal to the Ares II ? This is one application i have thought about as well but am not sure how it will benefit ? does it for tv audio ? Currently my setup is
samsung tv
denon avr 750h
klipsch Reference Dolby Atmos 5.0.2 home theater system
If i were to include the ARES ii in this chain I would need to bypass the AVR dac perhaps
2. did you evaluate the pontus II as well ? i am leaning towards this for few reasons
- because the functionality (buttons) are perhaps easier
- and may be more revealing with my Dynaudio Heritage specials
- i suspect an Ares ii with preamp feature is likely coming out
but then from what i have heard the eARC port on the pii is not for tv signals .. so a bit confused there. I also have to digest the price factor

 

[mike70]

I have ARTHUR 3409/N2 (Ncore) and XTZ A2-300 (ICEPower) with KEF R3 and i quite happy. although as always, I am tempted to buy something on Purifi
ARTHUR 3409/N2 its really nice, quality and automatic on/off function is big point

I have the R3 actually with a 80 watts AB and it seems enough ... but ... what impressions do you have about that amplifiers?

Automatic on / off ... classical switch appears to be more reliable, isn't?

 

[kovaga]

"small world" isnt it ! thankyou for writing back. I will check out the4 HqA youtuber. Meanwhile, I had a couple of related queries
1. why are you connecting your Tv signal to the Ares II ? This is one application i have thought about as well but am not sure how it will benefit ? does it for tv audio ? Currently my setup is
samsung tv
denon avr 750h
klipsch Reference Dolby Atmos 5.0.2 home theater system
If i were to include the ARES ii in this chain I would need to bypass the AVR dac perhaps
2. did you evaluate the pontus II as well ? i am leaning towards this for few reasons
- because the functionality (buttons) are perhaps easier
- and may be more revealing with my Dynaudio Heritage specials
- i suspect an Ares ii with preamp feature is likely coming out
but then from what i have heard the eARC port on the pii is not for tv signals .. so a bit confused there. I also have to digest the price factor

1. I connect my TV to Ares II via SPDIF, so whatever source the TV is streaming from will automatically go via the DAC > amp > speakers.
So the only switch i need to make is when i want from TV to RPI music.

2. Yeah. ARES was the first R2R DAC that I listened to, so without prior listening to it, i didnt want to risc investing to much money. But I am thinking of replacing ARES with Potuins or even Venus, and moving Ares to my office setup.One of the main difference would be the presence of the I2S port for streaming, but you would need to buy a separate head for the Rpi.

 

[S-unny]

1. I connect my TV to Ares II via SPDIF, so whatever source the TV is streaming from will automatically go via the DAC > amp > speakers.
So the only switch i need to make is when i want from TV to RPI music.

2. Yeah. ARES was the first R2R DAC that I listened to, so without prior listening to it, i didnt want to risc investing to much money. But I am thinking of replacing ARES with Potuins or even Venus, and moving Ares to my office setup.One of the main difference would be the presence of the I2S port for streaming, but you would need to buy a separate head for the Rpi.

Thanks for explaining. I havent worked with the I2S before so that will be nice. I am facing a bit of conundrum on my end - my heart is leaning towards the Pontus II but I am finding the Holo Audio Spring 3 more compelling because of the option to add the pre-amp board. This should give me flexibility to explore pure Amps. How did you settle on your Amp choice ?

{ I should have explained earlier that I am trying to put together a system around my Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. So far i have been experimenting with 3 Amps ! bluesound node poweramp, Marantz PM7000N and Cambridge Audio cxa81. I returned the Bsn poweramp and have replaced it with just the bluesound node 2. So that takes care of my streaming. I am going to return the two amps aswell and experiment more ... I have a long list to work through }

If I get the Pontus I will have to search for an integrated amp
If I get the HAS 3 it enables my exploration with more Amps - the price though is double & I am somehow sold on the Pontus II
choices .... requiring decisions !

 

[kovaga]

Holo Audio Spring 3 looks like a nice piece of kit, but it will be pricier then Pontus + Pseparate preamp. Besides, I think that there is a sense in going the route of having individual units doing individual tasks. Thus separate DAC, separate PreAMP, separate PoweAMP. Besides it would give you more flexibility of mix'n'matching different components and more resilience in case one of the componetns breaks down.

So with regards to the PowerAmp I decided to go the Purifi way, but in a bi-amping setup. So ordered 4 channel "PURIFI MULTICHANNEL AMPLIFIER" from Apollon Audio.

The plan is to have (Pontus or Venus) DAC >>> Hades PreAmp >>> Purifi 4-channel amp