Purifi vs Hypex vs A/B Amplifier?

[F1Fan72]

Hi all,

Question ..

I know this is a subjective question and not easy to answer but if you was in the market for a new amp, which module would factor in your amp purchase?

I’m currently looking at purchasing a new amp or mono blocks so starting to look around..

I mainly listen to classical, rock and metal and currently thinking about going the Purifi route (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-amplifiers/audiophonics-hpa-s450et-p-20205.html) but seen the fantastic reports / reviews of the Topping B200..

Thoughts?

 

[Audiofire]

Thoughts?

Topping B200 rocks!

 

[F1Fan72]

Topping B200 rocks!

Yeah, the reviews are fantastic

 

[Snoopy]

Fantastic they are

 

[F1Fan72]

Thanks guys..

 

[David_M]

Thanks guys..

With all due respect, I will dissent, if you may, and for this reason ... the B200 measured specs do NOT match what Topping claims for the product. This is a big red flag for me. You should verify for yourself before making a purchase. The Purifi products are the real deal, in my humble opinion, as they have been tested over and over—just my two cents.

 

[Audiofire]

B200 measured specs do NOT match what Topping claims for the product.

Why?

 

[David_M]

Why?

If you are asking me why they spec one thing and measure differently, you are asking the wrong person.

 

[Audiofire]

If you are asking me why they spec one thing and measure differently, you are asking the wrong person.

I was wondering what you think was measured too badly, as well as who measured. Just trying to understand you.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Hi all,

Question ..

I know this is a subjective question and not easy to answer but if you was in the market for a new amp, which module would factor in your amp purchase?

I’m currently looking at purchasing a new amp or mono blocks so starting to look around..

I mainly listen to classical, rock and metal and currently thinking about going the Purifi route (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-amplifiers/audiophonics-hpa-s450et-p-20205.html) but seen the fantastic reports / reviews of the Topping B200..

Thoughts?

The right amplifier for you really depends on a few key factors that need answering before any advice can be given.

What speakers are you using?
How far away do you sit when listening?
What kind of volume levels are you aiming for?
Do you want to connect different sources, like CD-player or turntable?
And do you plan to use EQ, DSP, or room correction?

 

[David_M]

I was wondering what you think was measured too badly, as well as who measured. Just trying to understand you.

You can do a simple check and verification. Look at the measured numbers here on ASR by Amir and look at what their website claims. Look at the numbers side-by-side.

1. For example, the power output measured by Amir, apart from being a lot lower than the manufacturer claims, shows the B200 to be quite limited in current output. 170 watts into 4 ohms is a current of only around 9 amps peak. Again this indicates it will struggle with lower impedance speakers. Limiting at 9 amps also ties in with it crapping out at 85 watts into 2 ohms.

2. Topping says the noise is 3.9uV (A weighted) and the SNR is 145dB. If that were the case the output voltage would be 3.9 ^ 145dB which is about 70 volts. That would equate to a power output of about 1200 watts into 4 ohms!

So, either the SNR or the noise, or both specs are clearly wrong.

Amir measures 131dB SNR which makes more sense.

Also from the graphs, the THD at 5 watts 4 ohms is about -128dB. From the SINAD of -115.4dB, this makes the noise about -115.7dB.

Therefore as output voltage is 4.475 volts, the noise (4.475 v - 115.7dB) is 7.3uV and not the claimed 3.9uV.

170 watts into 4 ohms max power equates to 26 volts output. The dB difference between 26V and 7.3uV is 131dB. This ties up exactly with Amirs SNR measurement.

So we can confidently say the Topping specs are hugely over inflated. In summary:

Power = 170 watts into 4 ohms @ 1% THD
Noise = 7.3uV
SNR/DNR = 131dB

Amir says: "No class D is able to achieve this level of performance at this time". This is simply incorrect. Many 1ET6525A or 1ET400 based amplifiers exceed these specs.

The B200 for sure performs good, for its price point of $600 and maybe this is where they excel.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

You can do a simple check and verification. Look at the measured numbers here on ASR by Amir and look at what their website claims. Look at the numbers side-by-side.

1. For example, the power output measured by Amir, apart from being a lot lower than the manufacturer claims, shows the B200 to be quite limited in current output. 170 watts into 4 ohms is a current of only around 9 amps peak. Again this indicates it will struggle with lower impedance speakers. Limiting at 9 amps also ties in with it crapping out at 85 watts into 2 ohms.

2. Topping says the noise is 3.9uV (A weighted) and the SNR is 145dB. If that were the case the output voltage would be 3.9 ^ 145dB which is about 70 volts. That would equate to a power output of about 1200 watts into 4 ohms!

So, either the SNR or the noise, or both specs are clearly wrong.

Amir measures 131dB SNR which makes more sense.

Also from the graphs, the THD at 5 watts 4 ohms is about -128dB. From the SINAD of -115.4dB, this makes the noise about -115.7dB.

Therefore as output voltage is 4.475 volts, the noise (4.475 v - 115.7dB) is 7.3uV.

170 watts into 4 ohms max power equates to 26 volts output. The dB difference between 26V and 7.3uV is 131dB. This ties up exactly with Amirs SNR measurement.

So we can confidently say the Topping specs are hugely over inflated. In summary:

Power = 170 watts into 4 ohms @ 1% THD
Noise = 7.3uV
SNR/DNR = 131dB

Amir says: "No class D is able to achieve this level of performance at this time". This is simply incorrect. Many 1ET6525A or 1ET400 based amplifiers exceed these specs.

The B200 for sure performs good, for its price point of $600 and maybe this is where they excel.

Good analysis.

It’s also worth noting that distortion and noise figures only carry practical weight if they’re within the range of human audibility. At these extremely low levels, we’re so deep into the territory where further improvements are technically impressive but practically irrelevant.

 

[Audiofire]

The manufacturer measured the amp with ideal lab conditions, typical marketing fluff.

 

[David_M]

Good analysis.

It’s also worth noting that distortion and noise figures only carry practical weight if they’re within the range of human audibility. At these extremely low levels, we’re so deep into the territory where further improvements are technically impressive but practically irrelevant.

That's true and ok but please be truthful in your advertising. No need to misrepresent (or lie ?) the performance of your product.

 

[DVDdoug]

the B200 measured specs do NOT match what Topping claims for the product. This is a big red flag for me.

MOST manufacturers seem to fudge their specs... Some by a little some by a lot!

You need consistent independent measurements (like the reviews here).

When it comes to noise there is more than one way to measure it. So even with honest specs the specs might not match the measurements. A-weighting will give a better measurement, but it also better represents what we hear. And with S/N, obviously the the "S" (signal) is important. With power amps, I believe Amir measures relative to 5W which allows you to compare different amplifiers. If you measure/calculate relative to maximum power a high power amp with the same noise will measure better but the noise is no less audible.

 

[boXem]

You can do a simple check and verification. Look at the measured numbers here on ASR by Amir and look at what their website claims. Look at the numbers side-by-side.

1. For example, the power output measured by Amir, apart from being a lot lower than the manufacturer claims, shows the B200 to be quite limited in current output. 170 watts into 4 ohms is a current of only around 9 amps peak. Again this indicates it will struggle with lower impedance speakers. Limiting at 9 amps also ties in with it crapping out at 85 watts into 2 ohms.

2. Topping says the noise is 3.9uV (A weighted) and the SNR is 145dB. If that were the case the output voltage would be 3.9 ^ 145dB which is about 70 volts. That would equate to a power output of about 1200 watts into 4 ohms!

So, either the SNR or the noise, or both specs are clearly wrong.

Amir measures 131dB SNR which makes more sense.

Also from the graphs, the THD at 5 watts 4 ohms is about -128dB. From the SINAD of -115.4dB, this makes the noise about -115.7dB.

Therefore as output voltage is 4.475 volts, the noise (4.475 v - 115.7dB) is 7.3uV and not the claimed 3.9uV.

170 watts into 4 ohms max power equates to 26 volts output. The dB difference between 26V and 7.3uV is 131dB. This ties up exactly with Amirs SNR measurement.

So we can confidently say the Topping specs are hugely over inflated. In summary:

Power = 170 watts into 4 ohms @ 1% THD
Noise = 7.3uV
SNR/DNR = 131dB

Amir says: "No class D is able to achieve this level of performance at this time". This is simply incorrect. Many 1ET6525A or 1ET400 based amplifiers exceed these specs.

The B200 for sure performs good, for its price point of $600 and maybe this is where they excel.

Good analysis, but there are a few minor points that I would like to comment:
- Since the power into 4R is higher than the one into 8R, you can't conclude that it is current limited. It could be due to a poor power supply. The 2R measurement is obviously current limited, but the current is so low (6.4 A) that I think that something else is at play.
- noise is measured with inputs shorted, a noise amplifier, and is then A weighted. SNR is deduced from this result. The way Amir measures SNR corresponds more to real life, but the AP is not such a good tool to measure a very low noise level. So truth may be somewhere between Toppigs spec and Amir's test.
- DNR doesn't apply to amplifiers
- No 1ET400A can reach such a low noise level while only 2 or 3 1ET6525SA implementations come close to it. Especially with the gain needed to reach max power with usual inputs levels.

 

[David_M]

MOST manufacturers seem to fudge their specs... Some by a little some by a lot!

You need consistent independent measurements (like the reviews here).

When it comes to noise there is more than one way to measure it. So even with honest specs the specs might not match the measurements. A-weighting will give a better measurement, but it also better represents what we hear. And with S/N, obviously the the "S" (signal) is important. With power amps, I believe Amir measures relative to 5W which allows you to compare different amplifiers. If you measure/calculate relative to maximum power a high power amp with the same noise will measure better but the noise is no less audible.

Actually, for decades, amplifier SNR/SINAD used to be measured relative to 1 1-watt output load of 8 ohms. So, if at 1W, it had an SNR of 100dB, then at 1000W, the amp would give a 130dB SNR at maximum output. It was easier to compare amps at the 1W level. It wasn't until I came to ASR that I saw the 5W spec. It makes the conversions much harder on my brain. I believe this 5W spec into 4R is unique to Amir and not an industry standard.

 

[David_M]

Good analysis, but there are a few minor points that I would like to comment:
- Since the power into 4R is higher than the one into 8R, you can't conclude that it is current limited. It could be due to a poor power supply. The 2R measurement is obviously current limited, but the current is so low (6.4 A) that I think that something else is at play.
- noise is measured with inputs shorted, a noise amplifier, and is then A weighted. SNR is deduced from this result. The way Amir measures SNR corresponds more to real life, but the AP is not such a good tool to measure a very low noise level. So truth may be somewhere between Toppigs spec and Amir's test.
- DNR doesn't apply to amplifiers
- No 1ET400A can reach such a low noise level while only 2 or 3 1ET6525SA implementations come close to it. Especially with the gain needed to reach max power with usual inputs levels.

I believe DNR also applies to amplifiers as its short hand for "distortion free dynamic range" and usually measured at 1 KHz as many other specs. It was the distance or height between the 0dB ref test signal and the highest 1st harmonic frequency, usually at 2 KHz (for Tube amps) and 3 KHz for SS/Class D amplifiers.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Good analysis, but there are a few minor points that I would like to comment:
- Since the power into 4R is higher than the one into 8R, you can't conclude that it is current limited. It could be due to a poor power supply. The 2R measurement is obviously current limited, but the current is so low (6.4 A) that I think that something else is at play.

If you treat everything that comes in the box from Topping as a single package and look at the B200 as a black box, then regardless of the internal design details, the system as a whole ends up being current-limited, and not fit to match with low-impedance or complex reactive loads.

 

[Chrispy]

Hi all,

Question ..

I know this is a subjective question and not easy to answer but if you was in the market for a new amp, which module would factor in your amp purchase?

I’m currently looking at purchasing a new amp or mono blocks so starting to look around..

I mainly listen to classical, rock and metal and currently thinking about going the Purifi route (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-amplifiers/audiophonics-hpa-s450et-p-20205.html) but seen the fantastic reports / reviews of the Topping B200..

Thoughts?

It's more an objective question IMO. Why do you think it is subjective? Why even consider monobloc amps? What are your details as to use and room/distances, etc?