Pure Electric Vehicles

[ErVikingo]

here the value "added" is negated by the permit and install cost. I installed 2 at home (dedicated breakers and chargers using proper conduit etc) and had to get them certified by a master electrician. Would have been cheaper to get the electrician from the start. There is also a question in our homeowners policy renewal every year about chargers, EV and whether they are charger indoors.

edit: I love my ICE vehicles and my EVs. Looking forward to testing the upcoming Roadster.

 

[Soundproof]

here the value "added" is negated by the permit and install cost. I installed 2 at home (dedicated breakers and chargers using proper conduit etc) and had to get them certified by a master electrician. Would have been cheaper to get the electrician from the start. There is also a question in our homeowners policy renewal every year about chargers, EV and whether they are charger indoors.

edit: I love my ICE vehicles and my EVs. Looking forward to testing the upcoming Roadster.

Less reported fires the last 2-3 years, but it makes a lot of sense in my book. (Kickbikes and batterybikes on the other hand, there's been more than a few fires during charging with those). Own safety, plus pretty protective if moving on and selling a house, being able to pass lawsuits on to the electricians. Various regs in various jurisdictions, but the seller is responsible for plumming and el being approved and in full working order hereabout, and they will loose lawsuits.

They have been dragging the story for years, but for an EV roadster, I find this one quite palatable. The collectable MF4/5 roadsters strikes me as the modern iterations of the British classics slash AC Cobra.

HOMEPAGE

Wiesmann Sports Cars GmbH

wiesmann.com

 

[Salt]

VW (Volkswagen) has announced a 100,000 preorder of EV in the sub 30 k€ area...
Gas price may even enhance...

 

[ErVikingo]

Less reported fires the last 2-3 years, but it makes a lot of sense in my book. (Kickbikes and batterybikes on the other hand, there's been more than a few fires during charging with those). Own safety, plus pretty protective if moving on and selling a house, being able to pass lawsuits on to the electricians. Various regs in various jurisdictions, but the seller is responsible for plumming and el being approved and in full working order hereabout, and they will loose lawsuits.

They have been dragging the story for years, but for an EV roadster, I find this one quite palatable. The collectable MF4/5 roadsters strikes me as the modern iterations of the British classics slash AC Cobra.

HOMEPAGE

Wiesmann Sports Cars GmbH

wiesmann.com

Weismann are pretty cool. Some referred to the ICE one as a reliable Morgan.

 

[Soundproof]

Weismann are pretty cool. Some referred to the ICE one as a reliable Morgan.

My idea of roadsters. Got BMW (M) engines and drivetrains, which would be important for spares for cars actually driven. The MF5 (V10) has become rather expensive - around 300K, thus I suspect they increasingly are owned by collectors and mainly kept inside.

..but they have been touting about the EV for years - and I don't believe production numbers are much more than than required to keep a very minimum interest alive. Seems like they have a few cars for auto shows, but I think they have made more rendereings than cars

 

[dtaylo1066]

here the value "added" is negated by the permit and install cost. I installed 2 at home (dedicated breakers and chargers using proper conduit etc) and had to get them certified by a master electrician. Would have been cheaper to get the electrician from the start. There is also a question in our homeowners policy renewal every year about chargers, EV and whether they are charger indoors.

edit: I love my ICE vehicles and my EVs. Looking forward to testing the upcoming Roadster.

Local codes can run up the cost. In my city you can self-install with a city inspection.

The copper inflation factor has pushed up wire costs greatly. 6 AWG wire is up to $1.50 or more a foot, some places $2.50. Conduit is thankfully cheap. A lot depends on how far a run you have from your panel to the wall unit.

If you run wires to a NEMA 14-50 you will need 3 wires plus a ground. If you hard wire to the EV Charger (not really a charger), you only need 2 wires and a ground. On a 50-foot run that makes a difference.

And the wall unit itself will run you $299 to $800. A fully permitted install by an electrician with inspections can run you over 2K. If you drive 15,000 miles per year at $4 per gallon at 25 mpg, you are spending $2,400 per year on gas. So a charger ROI can take up to 2 years.

One has to evaluate and measure all this up front.

Anyone who goes NEMA 14-50 needs to realize that you need a special and heavy-duty EV receptacle. If you install one like is on your dryer, or plug into your dryer as per some switches, you better have a good fire extinguisher. One needs to understand that an EV charger operates under what is known as a continuous load for up to 9 hours. No other circuit in a home operates in such a manner. AC, dryer, oven, stove, hot tub, etc, all run for much shorter time periods, or in short bursts over time.

 

[Petrushka]

I may have missed it, but self driving is now the biggest selling point, or nearly so

I’m 80, and would like to visit my kids in NYC. No way I can drive in the city.

In the last few months this has become a big deal among older people.

 

[Matt34]

Looking at the new Chevy Bolts (rs with tech package) in that flashy Orange for the wife after her lease is up next month on the Ioniq 5. We test drove one last weekend and it felt familiar to the Hyundai but in a narrower form factor. Rear leg room is very impressive for that size, hatch space, not so much. I liked all the physical buttons for the hvac and the google based screen seams like it’s quick to respond.

The U.S definitely needs more affordable options though, the new Leaf was alright but the back seats would not work for us.

 

[pablolie]

I may have missed it, but self driving is now the biggest selling point, or nearly so

I’m 80, and would like to visit my kids in NYC. No way I can drive in the city.

In the last few months this has become a big deal among older people.

Self-driving doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather Uber or some other form of new age taxi. I know that's the inevitable future for 80% of our getting around in the future - and given the fact I turned sixty-ish I find it a compelling vision for when I am even older (if I make it there). I'd rather be taxied around by a self-driving car than own one. Less hassle - no parking issues, no insurance, no service.

To me ownership is about complete control. I turn off the gimmicky stuff like proximity detection and such in my EV.

But the future will be interesting. I think the 80/20 rule above means that, for the 20% of driving we'll do, it'll be for fun. I would not be surprised if many old classic models are revived as EVs with more limited range (and lower weight for a more purist driving experience), since they'd merely be weekend fun cars. Kind of the Toyota-engined mock Porsche 356 I recently leased [1] to a friend because I was not using it at all.

[1] It's a win-win. He wanted it, I didn't want to sell it because... what if they don't drive it and decide to therefore sell it? I don't want to lose it. This way, they take care of everything I don't want to do while I am not driving it, and can safely establish if it's worth buying it. It's a two year deal, and I credit most of the leasing cost if they decide to buy.

 

[Soundproof]

Looking at the new Chevy Bolts (rs with tech package) in that flashy Orange for the wife after her lease is up next month on the Ioniq 5. We test drove one last weekend and it felt familiar to the Hyundai but in a narrower form factor. Rear leg room is very impressive for that size, hatch space, not so much. I liked all the physical buttons for the hvac and the google based screen seams like it’s quick to respond.

The U.S definitely needs more affordable options though, the new Leaf was alright but the back seats would not work for us.

As far as I comprehend, Bolts are up for another exit and a return to fossile. A friend got curious and ordered the first iteration, and it was a lot of back and forth until he finally cancelled after delay upon delay and reported issues. Some sort of rebrand too if I remember correctly....

If considering EV's better get a car from a brand who puts their heart in it and walk the talk. Don't belive the Bolts qualify for that....

 

[pablolie]

As far as I comprehend, Bolts are up for another exit and a return to fossile. A friend got curious and ordered the first iteration, and it was a lot of back and forth until he finally cancelled after delay upon delay and reported issues. Some sort of rebrand too if I remember correctly....

If considering EV's better get a car from a brand who puts their heart in it and walk the talk. Don't belive the Bolts qualify for that....

The Bolt is a pretty good EV. Utilitarian and doesn't try to break records. But for the price it's pretty amazing. I have driven it as a rental and it was one of my favorite rental cars. Before I got my EV I rented one for a month to see if an EV was right for me, and here I am now with an EV as my main car (albeit a secondary everyday vehicle).

 

[Soundproof]

The Bolt is a pretty good EV. Utilitarian and doesn't try to break records. But for the price it's pretty amazing. I have driven it as a rental and it was one of my favorite rental cars.

Great, but purchasing an EV on it's way out the door as a consequence of a re-focus on combustion? That would certainly be troubling yours truly no matter how great it may be.

 

[pablolie]

Great, but purchasing an EV on it's way out the door as a consequence of a re-focus on combustion? That would certainly be troubling yours truly no matter how great it may be.

GM is a big company. I don't think anyone has to worry about them abandoning part supply and such. They will reuse components on the EVs they keep producing. And didn't they just bring back the Bolt on a "limited" production run" because of large demand? The Bolt to me is built to the EV standard that dominates other markets - cheap and functional and good quality and sized for urban environments. I did seriously consider buying one, since I have never regarded EVs as truly "desirable", to be honest. Not mine, not any.

 

[Petrushka]

Self-driving doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather Uber or some other form of new age taxi. I know that's the inevitable future for 80% of our getting around in the future - and given the fact I turned sixty-ish I find it a compelling vision for when I am even older (if I make it there). I'd rather be taxied around by a self-driving car than own one. Less hassle - no parking issues, no insurance, no service.

To me ownership is about complete control. I turn off the gimmicky stuff like proximity detection and such in my EV.

But the future will be interesting. I think the 80/20 rule above means that, for the 20% of driving we'll do, it'll be for fun. I would not be surprised if many old classic models are revived as EVs with more limited range (and lower weight for a more purist driving experience), since they'd merely be weekend fun cars. Kind of the Toyota-engined mock Porsche 356 I recently leased [1] to a friend because I was not using it at all.

[1] It's a win-win. He wanted it, I didn't want to sell it because... what if they don't drive it and decide to therefore sell it? I don't want to lose it. This way, they take care of everything I don't want to do while I am not driving it, and can safely establish if it's worth buying it. It's a two year deal, and I credit most of the leasing cost if they decide to buy.

Come back in 10 or 15 years and talk about whether self driving makes sense.

As for taxis, self driving will dominate within ten years. Uber drivers already own their vehicles. They could manage a fleet of self driving vehicles. As for how they will afford to buy them, it’s a razor and blade thing. Tesla will practically give the vehicles away, and take a cut of the fare.

 

[pablolie]

One final thought on cars in general as they've become very "computerized".

There have aways been modular elements in a car that get replaced easily as they get used up. Think of car batteries in every car. It's just a swap.

I think it a HUGE miss that the central processing unit that controls so many car functions these days is NOT easily field replaceable. Software support on ageing platforms is a huge liability. The processing unit should be something you can easily update (Raspberry Pi swap?) so continued software support can be provided.

 

[pablolie]

Come back in 10 or 15 years and talk about whether self driving makes sense.

I never said it doesn't make sense universally, I mentioned that in the context of *ownership*. I just said I leave the concept of self-driving to taxis. I dont want to own a self-driving car, ever.

As for taxis, self driving will dominate within ten years. Uber drivers already own their vehicles. They could manage a fleet of self driving vehicles. As for how they will afford to buy them, it’s a razor and blade thing. Tesla will practically give the vehicles away, and take a cut of the fare.

I'd argue self-driving is already getting there and will dominate way before ten years. We have Waymo coverage in Silicon Valley, and others. And the other day I was being driven by a very old Uber driver in a Tesla, clearly relying on self driving. That future is already taking shape here and now, very quickly.

 

[dtaylo1066]

The Bolt overall delivers on it proposition. Lots of EVs coming off lease in the next year for good used options. Some good current lease or 0% finance options.

Self-driving for Tesla models is quite good, but you may have robotaxis before too long which, like Uber, could be a cheaper alternative, if ROI is your goal.

Overall, a car is a poor investment, sitting idle most of the time, requiring its own house, constantly needing some form of energy to move it.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I think it a HUGE miss that the central processing unit that controls so many car functions these days is NOT easily field replaceable. Software support on ageing platforms is a huge liability. The processing unit should be something you can easily update (Raspberry Pi swap?) so continued software support can be provided.

Interesting thinking... it wasn't that many years ago that laptops were obsolete every couple of years, today the better ones can last 5-10 years and still be usable. Along those lines, a few decades ago a car with 100k miles on it was ready for the crusher.

As cars become commodity appliances and styling is less of a thing, you are probably onto something.

 

[Soundproof]

GM is a big company. I don't think anyone has to worry about them abandoning part supply and such. They will reuse components on the EVs they keep producing. And didn't they just bring back the Bolt on a "limited" production run" because of large demand? The Bolt to me is built to the EV standard that dominates other markets - cheap and functional and good quality and sized for urban environments. I did seriously consider buying one, since I have never regarded EVs as truly "desirable", to be honest. Not mine, not any.

No corp is too big to fail, they've been chapt 11 and bailed out before. Mind you, A LOT of brands are working hard to slash costs by closing plants, letting workers go and trimming the model ranges hard, and that's not over tomorrow. I would be careful before purchasing if I know a car is being dropped.....

 

[pablolie]

The Bolt overall delivers on it proposition. Lots of EVs coming off lease in the next year for good used options. Some good current lease or 0% finance options.

Self-driving for Tesla models is quite good, but you may have robotaxis before too long which, like Uber, could be a cheaper alternative, if ROI is your goal.

Overall, a car is a poor investment, sitting idle most of the time, requiring its own house, constantly needing some form of energy to move it.

Amen! Car ownership is quickly becoming a rather irrational choice. It's our urge to "own" a la Carl Jung.