• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Pure Electric Vehicles

I am a nervous passenger and found the auto driving terrifying.
I find the calibration of our Toyota adaptive cruise control OK in very heavy traffic - and now I have retired I plan my journeys to avoid that - but really useless in normal traffic, so when I found I could choose not to have either adaptive cruise or self help driving (and not have a glass roof or drug-dealer rear windows) because they were optional I chose not to have any of them (:)) and spent the money on rear wheel steer, active anti-roll bars, torque vectoring and the best tyres (though not the most powerful motor).
 
Back to OP's original question:
I drive an BMW iX xDrive 40. I can charge at home and for free at work. Great for cheap commute which is 1 hr each way daily. I bought the car used with only 5'000km for about 1/3 of list price :p. I drive 30'000km per year. I extended the warranty.

The bad:
  • too f**ing big for Swiss parking lots and roads
  • low range in winter, especially because I want to be gentle on the battery and use 20-80% charging only
  • bought outright instead of leasing: tech is progressing too darn fast thus no re-sale value, leasing might be a better option
The good:
  • insane acceleration
  • dead quiet
  • very upmarket interior and excellent assisted driving
I have since adjusted to the range anxiety and especially in summer get good mileage (16 kWh/100km). I only charged it three times away from work or home. Electricity is 100% hydro-power so totally renewable. Charging costs are negligible, very economical.

And since we are on ASR: I have the top-tier, upgraded sound system from Bowers & Wilkins, the Diamond Surround Sound System. This 30-speaker system delivers 1,615 watts of power, four carbon-fiber subwoofers, and 4D Exciters built into the seat backrests for tactile bass feedback. The bass is louder outside than inside and I love to crank it up and hear no distortion. Several DSP modes add to the playful enjoyment.

Conclusion: I will never go back to ICE for daily use. I have a diesel VW camper van for road trips but don't enjoy driving it anymore. I will use this car for another 5 years when the warranty on it expires as well as free service (200k km). If no one takes it off my hands, I might recycle the battery for a power boat ;)

PS Edit: Charging stations are also plentiful: over 18'000 public stations in a country of 41'000 sq km, half of which is alpine mountains, no federal subsidies!
 
Last edited:
I notice a few things. First, the problems with electricity companies seem a very US thing. Here in the Netherlands, and I think also elsewhere in the EU, we have competition between power retail companies who mostly buy from the European (spot) market. Most consumers have contracts with a price that is fixed for one year, but an increasing number have dynamic contracts where the price varies every 15 minutes. I can choose between about two dozen suppliers, and there are no restrictions on solar panels. Until now, we can feed back solar generated electricity into the grid at the same price as what we pay for when we use from the grid. However, this will change because it has become unsustainable: electricity at mid day in the Summer has a negative market value, and yet, the power companies have to pay you mid Winter prices. That was OK when few people had panels, but not when a large proportion have them. This is all the more pressing in northern Europe, where we are so much closer to the Arctic than the US, with far less sunlight in Winter.
We live in a 220sq m detached house that was well insulated by the mandatory building standards of the late nineties, but not by current standards. So a few years ago, when our flat roof started leaking, we replaced the roof insulation, and also the crawl space insulation, reducing our natural gas bill by 30%. A bit later our gas boiler needed to be replaced, and we opted for a fully electric heat pump system and disconnected from the natural gas grid, in the process saving the connection charge. Our monthly electricity bill is now 135 euros for electricity from renewable sources.
That still leaves the car, a 1998 Peugeot 406. It is a comfortable and very well handling car, but it is getting on, so we have started looking around for an EV. We tried a few, and are really impressed. The experience feels a bit like driving the big American V8 car that I used to drive years ago: silent, and with massive torque. We have decided to hold off a bit longer, because we really want to have a car ready for Vehicle to Grid, using the car battery as a home battery to benefit as much as possible from our solar panels, and all the more so when dynamic electricity prices will become the norm, or even mandatory. This will level the peaks in either supply or demand that our grid is currently having to cope with. Right now the first cars are hitting the market, but the choice is still limited (looking at you Tesla), and the power companies and the government are not quite ready yet. My guess is that it will be another year. We can charge at home, but the Netherlands also have a large charging network. We have a dense network of highways, and I don't think there is a single petrol/gasoline station left along the highways that does not also have enough fast chargers. From the stories that I hear, the same is now increasingly also true for much of the rest of Europe, thanks in part to EU mandatory regulation, but also from consumer demand. Driving an EV is now so much cheaper than using petrol/gasoline that the market forces suppliers to shift. Sales of new Petrol/diesel cars are now just 11% of the Dutch market and full electric 39%. The rest is hybrids, with full electric rapidly gaining market share. The Netherlands have 142,000 public stations and 4700 fast charging stations.
 
Last edited:
I notice a few things. First, the problems with electricity companies seem a very US thing. Here in the Netherlands, and I think also elsewhere in the EU, we have competition between power retail companies who mostly buy from the European (spot) market. Most consumers have contracts with a price that is fixed for one year, but an increasing number have dynamic contracts where the price varies every 15 minutes. I can choose between about two dozen suppliers, and there are no restrictions on solar panels. Until now, we can feed back solar generated electricity into the grid at the same price as what we pay for when we use from the grid. However, this will change because it has become unsustainable: electricity at mid day in the Summer has a negative market value, and yet, the power companies have to pay you mid Winter prices. That was OK when few people had panels, but not when a large proportion have them. This is all the more pressing in northern Europe, where we are so much closer to the Arctic than the US, with far less sunlight in Winter.
We live in a 220sq m detached house that was well insulated by the mandatory building standards of the late nineties, but not by current standards. So a few years ago, when our flat roof started leaking, we replaced the roof insulation, and also the crawl space insulation, reducing our natural gas bill by 30%. A bit later our gas boiler needed to be replaced, and we opted for a fully electric heat pump system and disconnected from the natural gas grid, in the process saving the connection charge. Our monthly electricity bill is now 135 euros for electricity from renewable sources.
That still leaves the car, a 1998 Peugeot 406. It is a comfortable and very well handling car, but it is getting on, so we have started looking around for an EV. We tried a few, and are really impressed. The experience feels a bit like driving the big American V8 car that I used to drive years ago: silent, and with massive torque. We have dcided to hold off a bit longer, because we really want to have a car ready for Vehicle to Grid, using the car battery as a home battery to benefit as much as possible from our solar panels, and all the more so when dynamic electricity prices will become the norm, or even mandatory. This will level the peaks in either supply or demand that our grid is currently having to cope with. Right now the first cars are hitting the market, but the choice is still limited (looking at you Tesla), and the power companies and the government are not quite ready yet. My guess is that it will be another year. We can charge at home, but the Netherlands also have a large charging network. We have a dense network of highways, and I don't think there is a single petrol/gasoline station left along the highways that does not also have enough fast chargers. From the stories that I hear, the same is now increasingly also true for much of the rest of Europe, thanks in part to EU mandatory regulation, but also from consumer demand. Driving an EV is now so much cheaper than using petrol/gasoline that the market forces suppliers to shift. Sales of new Petrol/diesel cars are now just 11% of the market and full electric 39%. The rest is hybrids, with full electric rapidly gaining market share. The Netherlands have 142,000 public stations and 4700 fast chargeing stations.
VW's and Skoda's 2027 models offer power to grid models along with LFP batteries.
 
VW's and Skoda's 2027 models offer power to grid models along with LFP batteries.
Yes, I heard. However thus far Volkswagen seems to opt for a DC rather than AC connection, which requires a much more expensive charger. Right now, the choice is limited to a few models from Renault, Kia and the new 2026 Nissan Leaf. Currently in the Netherlands the hard bit is finding an electricity supplier. There are also some fiscal challenges to be solved: what to do with VAT when the electricity bought from the grid is sold back to the grid?
 
Lease one, that's more inexpensive than buying one. I will pay 158 € per month over 4 years.
Not sure where you are based. In NL where I am, leasing with the amount of Kms we do per year is more than 800euro a month and for a smaller car . For~4 years makes more sense to buy second hand as the lease is more expensive even if you consider no residual value on the owned EV. Of course you carry the risk like this also.
We bought one. Very happy so far
 
Not sure where you are based. In NL where I am, leasing with the amount of Kms we do per year is more than 800euro a month and for a smaller car . For~4 years makes more sense to buy second hand as the lease is more expensive even if you consider no residual value on the owned EV. Of course you carry the risk like this also.
We bought one. Very happy so far
I live in Germany and just leased a Skoda Elroq for approx. 300 € per month over 4 years.
 
I live in Germany and just leased a Skoda Elroq for approx. 300 € per month over 4 years.
That sounds like a great deal. How many Kms does the lease include?
in General DE is cheaper for most things car related compared to NL.
I checked for an Enyaq (a 2nd hand one) and was about 800 euro per month for 25k Km per year back in Feb so we got an iX3 2022 version instead
 
That sounds like a great deal. How many Kms does the lease include?
in General DE is cheaper for most things car related compared to NL.
I checked for an Enyaq (a 2nd hand one) and was about 800 euro per month for 25k Km per year back in Feb so we got an iX3 2022 version instead
It's for 10 Kkm per year.
 
I'm seriously considering buying a Tesla Model Y as my next car, but I've only owned petrol cars so far, so I'm still not sure how much of a difference it would make in everyday use. The space, quiet ride and lower running costs sound great, but I'm a little concerned about recharging on longer trips and battery life after a few years. I'm also curious about how useful the autonomous driving features are in real life and whether you actually use them. Has anyone here switched from a petrol car to a Model Y and would you make the same choice again?
 
@maximilianx33 We went with a BMW iX3 though we considered the Tesla. A combination of politics, ergonomics and reliability pushed us away from Tesla as a brand.

Overall, the battery SOH is maintained better than most people expected for all brands. For me the BMW made a difference because their BMS seems to do a great job of maintaining a high SOH after many Kms. A quick look at the second hand market gives you an idea of what you can expect in practise from different brands after a certain mileage. Ours was a second hand car with 120k Km on the road and an SOH of 96%. Most other brands had SOHs of high 80s low 90s for the same mileage.

The autonomous driving in the BMW is reviewed as a very good one, but likely the Tesla's is better. I only use the adaptive cruise and not the autonomous driving, as I find I don't always trust it to make the right choices. To be fair it has not done anything wrong, but it is not smooth enough so I am always anxious when it's on.

For the range you really get used to it in the long trips. If you can drive solid 200km chunks, then the 30min break is not so bad. Travelling with the family we find that more often the car is already charged to 80% before we are back from the toilet/food/etc break. Of course it depends how often you do long trips. We do 4-5 times a year trips of up to 800km .

Mileage reported by manufacturers is not to be trusted of course. This website has the most useful database, standardized and checked in real conditions so you can make meaningful comparisons across brands models and model versions

https://ev-database.org

Not super intuitive but the data is all there!
Keep in mind that their cold weather data refer to -10degC so that is kind of on the worst end for most cases.

Hope this helps. For us there are really zero regrets so far and we are often laughing thinking how weird it seems now to drive an ICE car

Edit:syntax
 
Last edited:
I'm seriously considering buying a Tesla Model Y as my next car, but I've only owned petrol cars so far, so I'm still not sure how much of a difference it would make in everyday use. The space, quiet ride and lower running costs sound great, but I'm a little concerned about recharging on longer trips and battery life after a few years. I'm also curious about how useful the autonomous driving features are in real life and whether you actually use them. Has anyone here switched from a petrol car to a Model Y and would you make the same choice again?
I switched from a gasoline car to a Model Y about three years ago. It was a great move. I bought the Y because it is (at least where I live) sold at a price I could afford and based on my reading at Bloomberg, has a super efficient drivetrain, low manufacturing carbon footprint, and on reviews that I read.

It has been a great experience. I have spent zero dollars on maintenance, other than rotating/aligning the wheels. It drives like a sports car, seems to have unlimited acceleration, and I like the stiff suspension. Long distance driving is not a problem at all where I live (eastern U.S.) but you need to check in your area for charging options. It is not usually a problem. You can simulate a trip on the Tesla website and it will show you this information on a map. Battery longevity appear to be a non-issue, reports are that the high voltage battery will last over 200,000 miles.

I have found the automated emergency features to work well. For example, I was driving and some fool decided to run across the road, the Y initiated braking before I did. There are audio warnings if the evaluates that immediate braking is required. There are visual and audible warnings for lane changes if there is a car in your blind spot. This is not a full list of the many safety features, and those features are updated regularly via software update. And of course, no tailpipe emissions.

Adaptive cruise control works well. I have used in on highways and low speed local roads. If you select the option, it will keep you reliably in lane on most roads (not all roads, they must have lane markings for complete reliability.) The "full self driving" option is controversial, and in my opinion, is dangerous and not worth considering, but the car is such a joy to drive that I don't care.

I agree with all the negative remarks about Musk made here and elsewhere, but that did not influence my decision. If I applied a moral or political test for my purchases, I would never buy anything, and, Tesla has well over 100,000 employees not named Elon. Why should they be penalized? It's a wonderful vehicle. Quiet, clean, fast, with great handling. What more could you ask for?

Edit: relevant to current news I should mention that it has a superb HVAC system provided by an efficient heat pump which automatically introduces some outside air from time to time so that the cabin does not become stuffy. And, specific to the terrible wildfires going on, it has an emergency mode which slightly pressurizes the cabin to keep outdoor air from entering and filters the air through a large HEPA filter. Thus if you are in a wildfire smoke situation, you can protect your lungs.
 
Last edited:
Do keep in mind that the a lot of energy comes from natural gas (LNG/Methane), and the European stock is at 62% before winther. The situations in Russia and the Persian Gulf makes it a major challenge to restock. Simultaneously, the hydropower water reservoirs are also low as they were drained pretty hard last winter. Not that much snow in the mountains last winter, and not much rain in the spring/summer/fall, there is a shortage of energy. Unless lots of heavy rain the remainder of this fall, and a solution to the Persian Gulf conflict, expect very high energy prices this winter, in particular if Europe gets a cold winter. The North Sea gas fields are already at their max production, and parts of the production/supply capacity in the Persian Gulf has damages it takes a long time to repair.

If that isn't enough, the AI industry sucks the marrow out of the bones, and am and will contribute heavily to the supply shortage scenario. And of course, EV's are contributing heavily too. Which is intentional. But the politicians didn't take AI and Hormuz into account.

The problem nobody talks about with EV's contra diesel++ is that you can store diesel and petrol decentralized in cans, barrels or tanks, 10 liters or 10.000 liters. But where would you store electricity if the grid is down and the trucks/cars/machinery required to restore the grid is reliant upon the power not available? EV's are not ideal in crisis, you can't smuggle electricity.
 
But where would you store electricity
Batteries.
There are mass and reverse hydro methods too for a larger scale.
Neither need a huge transport infastructure to supply either - almost half of international shipping is carrying oil and gas :facepalm:

Renewables are rapidly replacing fossil fuels, thankfully.
 
Do keep in mind that the a lot of energy comes from natural gas (LNG/Methane), and the European stock is at 62% before winther. The situations in Russia and the Persian Gulf makes it a major challenge to restock. Simultaneously, the hydropower water reservoirs are also low as they were drained pretty hard last winter. Not that much snow in the mountains last winter, and not much rain in the spring/summer/fall, there is a shortage of energy. Unless lots of heavy rain the remainder of this fall, and a solution to the Persian Gulf conflict, expect very high energy prices this winter, in particular if Europe gets a cold winter. The North Sea gas fields are already at their max production, and parts of the production/supply capacity in the Persian Gulf has damages it takes a long time to repair.

If that isn't enough, the AI industry sucks the marrow out of the bones, and am and will contribute heavily to the supply shortage scenario. And of course, EV's are contributing heavily too. Which is intentional. But the politicians didn't take AI and Hormuz into account.

The problem nobody talks about with EV's contra diesel++ is that you can store diesel and petrol decentralized in cans, barrels or tanks, 10 liters or 10.000 liters. But where would you store electricity if the grid is down and the trucks/cars/machinery required to restore the grid is reliant upon the power not available? EV's are not ideal in crisis, you can't smuggle electricity.
Create other sources of electricity.

Rapid deployment of solar generated electric where ever the sun shines, with batteries is one good choice, it's what we have where I live in Florida. Also China, as I understand it. I'm sure that there are other approaches, wind comes to mind. Nuclear power also works, but it isn't rapid deployment and there are environmental issues.

EVs are vastly more efficient than fossil fuel vehicles. Total energy consumption is reduced, dramatically, with EVs.

The problem is reliance on fossil fuels, a big mistake by governments everywhere, when there are better alternatives. Or perhaps it might be more accurate to say, we are held hostage by fossil fuel cartels, who have apparently done their level best to forestall the development of alternatives, e.g. the current national government here in the U.S.

And of course, oppose data centers and block them when ever possible.
 
Create other sources of electricity.

Rapid deployment of solar generated electric where ever the sun shines, with batteries is one good choice, it's what we have where I live in Florida. Also China, as I understand it. I'm sure that there are other approaches, wind comes to mind. Nuclear power also works, but it isn't rapid deployment and there are environmental issues.

EVs are vastly more efficient than fossil fuel vehicles. Total energy consumption is reduced, dramatically, with EVs.

The problem is reliance on fossil fuels, a big mistake by governments everywhere, when there are better alternatives. Or perhaps it might be more accurate to say, we are held hostage by fossil fuel cartels, who have apparently done their level best to forestall the development of alternatives, e.g. the current national government here in the U.S.

And of course, oppose data centers and block them when ever possible.
I didn't really try to get into the politics and markets, just wanted to point out the likelyhood of high energy prices and why. But I have no objections to what you are saying.

You are certainly right in exploring sources of energy like sun, wind and smaller scale decentralized thorium nuclear plants for that matter. Sun all year, and solar is indeed common sense, but closer to the poles and short days causes the production to drop when the consumption increases, and ocean wind conflicts with fisheries, as ocean depth is a very significant cost factor for establishing farms. (Great for the fish though, as the structures will serve a similar function to reefs - protecting eggs and small fish from pelagic predators, and the predators from the trawlers).

Right now, it doesn't work that well. True, China has clearly recognised the evolving scenarios and the investments in renewables are massive (and wise). But the demand for energy increases fast, and to cover the shortage by renewables, the industrialisation of nature will be dramatic. One has to deal with the consumption side and there's no way around that, and there's no way around adressing AI impact which is huge both locally and international.

I also agree EV's are rational in terms of efficiency, and it drives battery tech forward. EV's kicked off by heavy, subsidised performance cars like Porsche Taycan, MB EQS and so on. That's not really bad, as it propels the tech forward in terms of efficiency which benefits all other EV's. However, to make it environmentally advantageous, the focus has to be on the small everyday cars with limited performance and so on. Like the small Fiats in Italy post WW2. That's already ongoing, albeit the luxury still owns the headlines. Presently, Range Rover gets the coverage.
 
The best batteries are synthetic diesel fuel produced using solar and wind power plants :) .
I presume you are joking?
A friend of mine is runs a R&D company developing the production of "sustainable" fuel. The production possibilities are very expemnsive and slow, and are unlikely to ever be economical for general use, and still need transport and distribution.
FWIW one of my ex-colleagues, I am now retired, told me the sustainable fuel mandated for Formula 1 racing costs around $500,000 per team per race.

The "Zero" research level plant produces about a perfume bottle full of fuel per day and uses so much electricity any production plant will need to be near a wind farm or hydro plant using surplus energy at night and currently looks impractical.
 
Back
Top Bottom