• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Published Research on Bi-Wiring Speakers

Does bi-wiring actually matter?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 9.3%
  • No

    Votes: 88 90.7%

  • Total voters
    97
It depends. If the crossover have more overlap, the overall impedance would reduce at that frequency.
Reducing impedance may cause increase distortion (amp dependent).

Best to do nowadays is have separate amp for tweeter and woofer with dsp crossover.
Whistle! Right here folks.

Why in 2022 do we still have passive designs at all. I know Danny at GR research is pretty polarizing, but his acoustic tests on some fairly highly respected speakers show just how bad passive crossover networks are implemented. Im sorry, but passive cross over networks are Fred Flintstone technology.. Discrete amps for each driver. Proper DSP applied and the problem goes away. Ruler flat response with amp circuits optimized for the driver.
 
It depends. If the crossover have more overlap, the overall impedance would reduce at that frequency.
Reducing impedance may cause increase distortion (amp dependent).

Best to do nowadays is have separate amp for tweeter and woofer with dsp crossover.
You can also warp gold around the speaker wires and proclaim a reduction in distortion. The reduction is, if at all, hard to measure and will not pass a single blind listening test. Therefore bi-amp with passive crossover is voodoo at it's best.

If you are unlucky one of the amps doesn't provide the exactly same phase as the other amp. In this case the crossover region don't provide the frequency response as intended and you get worse sound by spending more money.
 
You can also warp gold around the speaker wires and proclaim a reduction in distortion. The reduction is, if at all, hard to measure and will not pass a single blind listening test. Therefore bi-amp with passive crossover is voodoo at it's best.

If you are unlucky one of the amps doesn't provide the exactly same phase as the other amp. In this case the crossover region don't provide the frequency response as intended and you get worse sound by spending more money.
You may go look at thd+n chart with 4 ohm and 8 ohms.
 
Ruler flat response with amp circuits optimized for the driver.
Genuine question - perhaps for @amirm - via teardowns, have we seen actual optimization of amps in active speakers, or have they been just standard chips or modules inserted unaltered?
 
You may go look at thd+n chart with 4 ohm and 8 ohms.
Any half decent amplifier provides significantly less thd than the best speakers. And some not so good amps get problems with high rising uneven impedance, which you will definitely get by splitting up the crossover. Therefore there is almost no real case where it makes any sense at all.
 
The improvement (no degradation is possible) of the sound quality is dependent of the amplifier and the speaker design.
I was myself surprised by the result.
Those who have a brand new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra and complain that the SQ is degraded when pushing up the volume, could one of you test bi-wiring (if the speaker impedance is higher than 4 ohms)‽
 
Any half decent amplifier provides significantly less thd than the best speakers. And some not so good amps get problems with high rising uneven impedance, which you will definitely get by splitting up the crossover. Therefore there is almost no real case where it makes any sense at all.
You did say hard to measure. I mention it is measurable.
It can be real case if done purposely.
 
You did say hard to measure. I mention it is measurable.
It can be real case if done purposely.
Come on, it is true that there can be differences in distortion, but there is only one good use-case for it. If you are designing an active speaker and are on a tight budget this might be of interesst.
If you don't want to do some eq or crossover stuff, bi-amping it is simply dump.

You won't tell me that any sane end consumer will use or even buy tow ****** amps to do bi-amping. He has to go down the way to measures and pair both ****** amps to get slightly better result (if the amps are ****** the probability of getting a worse frequency response or distortion with bi-amp is higher since the impedance is more uneven). Than he has to use very decent aka expensive speakers so that the distortion difference of the ****** amps can even be perceived. Instead the person could buy one decent amp which is transparent and didn't cost much these days...
 
I was curious if there were any actual benefits to bi-wiring speakers and came across this piece from Q Acoustics. I always assumed bi-wiring was pointless since it's just a matter of signals and cables. Anyway, their research was published in 2016 and they build on prior research from 1998 to show a measurable decrease in IMD when speakers are bi-wired. I found it fascinating and would love to know what the community thinks.
Q acoustically are right in some ways. Biwiring causes less IMD distortion which is easy to hear with music where a lot of things are happening at the same time, in the whole frequency spectra. Biwiring also causes some phase shifts thats gonna be variable depending on the music content . These phase shifts can be considered as a dissadvantage with biwiring , where single-wire, if the passive crossover is really well done, can present a more pin-point exact location of the sound.

Is biwiring a better choice then, than single wiring ? - in many cases, the perceived pitch of the music will be slightly better with biwiring - in my experience. Listening to music will be slightly more fun. This is audible even with only one amplifier using separate cables for tweeter and bass. Using two amplifiers with biamping and a passive crossover is slightly better still. But one must remember that spending the same amount of money on two amplifiers instead of one, gives you a better amplifier if you buy only one.:)

Going fully active with separate amplifiers and an active crossover is a much better choice though.
A fully active approach with optimal dsp active crossovers gives much less EMK problems and reduced IMD distortion.
The perceived pitch will be better. The sound will be clearly better playing at a high volume.

All of those things I have described here can very easily be demonstrated with real music. Linn products did those tests 30 years ago. Below, Q acoustics measurements.

DCDB167D-B48D-4AE9-8EDB-D83D4D50661D.jpeg
C3F5C667-6FCE-4E2F-822C-9EBE57D42F6C.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Q acoustically are right in some ways. Biwiring causes less IMD distortion which is easy to hear with music where a lot of things are happening at the same time, in the whole frequency spectra. Biwiring also causes some phase shifts thats gonna be variable depending on the music content . These phase shifts can be considered as a dissadvantage where single-wire, if the passive crossover is really well done, can present a more pin-point exact location of the sound.

.
That seems remarkably nonsensical. I would normally ask for controlled listening data to back up this remarkable claim, but I know that's a useless request.
 
Whistle! Right here folks.

Why in 2022 do we still have passive designs at all. I know Danny at GR research is pretty polarizing, but his acoustic tests on some fairly highly respected speakers show just how bad passive crossover networks are implemented. Im sorry, but passive cross over networks are Fred Flintstone technology.. Discrete amps for each driver. Proper DSP applied and the problem goes away. Ruler flat response with amp circuits optimized for the driver.
Very true !
Active is very often much better sounding. Most people have never heard a really good active loudspeaker, so they might still believe that passives are good enough.
 
So should I septi-wire for music in 7/8 or should I stick with my current sexdec-wiring to keep my options open? Also, how do I stop my speakers from toppling over with the kilos of copper hanging off the back?
 
Q acoustically are right in some ways. Biwiring causes less IMD distortion which is easy to hear with music where a lot of things are happening at the same time, in the whole frequency spectra. Biwiring also causes some phase shifts thats gonna be variable depending on the music content . These phase shifts can be considered as a dissadvantage with biwiring , where single-wire, if the passive crossover is really well done, can present a more pin-point exact location of the sound.

Is biwiring a better choice then, than single wiring ? - in many cases, the perceived pitch of the music will be slightly better with biwiring - in my experience. Listening to music will be slightly more fun. This is audible even with only one amplifier using separate cables for tweeter and bass. Using two amplifiers with biamping and a passive crossover is slightly better still. But one must remember that spending the same amount of money on two amplifiers instead of one, gives you a better amplifier if you buy only one.:)

Going fully active with separate amplifiers and an active crossover is a much better choice though.
A fully active approach with optimal dsp active crossovers gives much less EMK problems and reduced IMD distortion.
The perceived pitch will be better. The sound will be clearly better playing at a high volume.

All of those things I have described here can very easily be demonstrated with real music. Linn products did those tests 30 years ago. Below, Q acoustics measurements.

View attachment 198465View attachment 198466
The two cables still source from the same output terminal on the amp, right? So the electrical circuit is unchanged, just more gauge (in total).
As said before, try adding the red curve to the green curve. My guess is they sum to the blue one pretty damn close.
 
So should I septi-wire for music in 7/8 or should I stick with my current sexdec-wiring to keep my options open? Also, how do I stop my speakers from toppling over with the kilos of copper hanging off the back?
If you connect your amp with a solid metal bar, it will help the speaker stay upright by coupling it physically as well as electrically. That's why hifi racks are so overengineered.
 
Why in 2022 do we still have passive designs at all.
This is a question I ask constantly. I can't think of a single advantage other except for installation sound.
 
In the real world with a budget for parts in a speaker design , there is always something else you could have done for the money instead of sourcing fancy biwire terminals.
That would do more for the performance of the speaker, biwire terminals ( or triwire for 3 ways ) would rarely be the rational choice.

You can build an endless list.

A better more linear inductor somewhere in the crossover ?
Improve the crossover by adding some part ( for example compensate driver impedance)
Better resistors with more power handling.
An improved driver somewhere.
A brace somewhere in the cabinets.
.
.
Hire a better speaker designer, that does not incorporate voodo thinking in the design and implements the latest research in the design ? Freeing even more money for rational improvements :)
.
.
Finance blind test during the design phase
.
.
Etc

There are things that may not be audible that makes more sense to

Even better singlewire terminals :) ( more robust mechanical design , not the typical plastic cup insert )
Parallel speakon inputs.
Nicer finish.

IMHO there is always something better to do.
Especially at the cheap end of the product offering, where the fancy biwire terminals may cost as much as the whole xover or a driver ? But still they are there to please the irrational demand for it.
 
Whistle! Right here folks.

Why in 2022 do we still have passive designs at all. I know Danny at GR research is pretty polarizing, but his acoustic tests on some fairly highly respected speakers show just how bad passive crossover networks are implemented. Im sorry, but passive cross over networks are Fred Flintstone technology.. Discrete amps for each driver. Proper DSP applied and the problem goes away. Ruler flat response with amp circuits optimized for the driver.
Because most home audio buyers don't want active speakers. As a speaker designer, I'm not going to try and market speakers that no one will buy. Jim Salk offered an active version of a 2-way passive I designed, and he sold exactly one--the one he "bought" for his own HT. I know it may be irrational, but the market is the market.
 
Back
Top Bottom