Public Concerts with 2x 15 inch Lii full range drivers ?

[DVDdoug]

at least if that is your living room

Yes. That's my living room.

"No wife, no kids, no pets, no problems."

 

[Audionaut]

I found a place, an association who offer concerts and theater
and the space measures 8 x16 meters (26x52 feet),
the ceiling is about 3 meters (10 feet) high.

PA
Minimum: 2×12“ tops + 1×18” sub
Recommended: 2×12“ tops + 2×18” subs

If you enjoy it, you can build it yourself. But stick to tried-and-true designs, there are a lot in the market. There’s no point in experimenting without any experience if you’ve never done a self construction of a Loudspeaker before.
If it were just for you at home, the result wouldn’t matter and you could experiment, but as I understand it, you want to share the music with others—so it really should sound good.
In any case, I get annoyed when I have to listen to really bad sound somewhere that could have easily been prevented and improved.

PS
I don't think you can build it yourself for that price, including the amplifier circuitry.

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Something like this—or rather, with that much driver area—is the standard setup for a room of that size.
This is a budget product, but it's still much more useful than those Lii things.

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PPS

They have some pretty knowledgeable consultants at Thomann. If you tell them what you’re planning, the size of the room, etc.—and what you’re hoping to achieve—they’ll find something that fits your budget. If I were you, I’d just give it a try; you can always build it yourself if it doesn’t work out.

And no, I don’t work at Thomann and I don’t get a commission—but those guys really enjoy their work.

 

[DanielT]

I do not want to create any trouble, there is enough already out there,
but I would like to know what you think about this man and his experience ?

Try something in between. Two bass boxes, sealed or ported, that play up to 300Hz-500 Hz, then a small, reasonably large, full range driver on a suitable (in relation to the crossover frequency), wide, open baffle.

Electrostatics are usually not the best at reproducing bass so for example Martin Logan makes a combo, bass boxes with crossover at 380 Hz, the whole baffle is the speaker...in a way(the baffle is the speaker). Both that and what I sketched as a suggestion, tip for you are dipoles.

MartinLogan | Classic ESL 9

www.martinlogan.com

However, it requires some solution for the crossover. Passive, active or digital crossover. Something that suits you.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Thank you.

The video is one subjective opinion, but from someone who is quite experienced i think. But still only his opinion.

I will build boxes as well and compare with open baffles, probably 12inches.

And yes, i will buy 2x box ported subs.

For the crossover between the subs and the 12" drivers, i will use the wiim ultra.

I like simplicity if possible.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

I also have these with new low drivers

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

And these diy not a beauty but great sound

 

[DanielT]

Maybe consider Fostex FE206NV2 in a horn. Plans are on the product page as well. Directivity is relatively good for a wizzer cone speaker, and they are super efficient and can play fairly loud. If your audience is sitting down, this will probably do. Don’t expect massive bass, be depending on the music it may be enough. Next project could be sub to add.

View attachment 526561
… make the sides transparent, it will a marvel to behold

I heard that type of horn construction with that Fostex fullrange driver (or with the predecessor model, I don't remember) a few years ago at the home of a hard core
subjective analog vinyl loving hifi (nut).
It sounded nice in his room.
Of course with a tube amp (Dynaco ST -70 + some tube phono pre amp).
With streaming and a good solid state amp of 40 watts it would have sounded just as good ... or better but that's another discussion.

In any case, if you are reasonably knowledgeable in hobby carpentry, have a small carpentry workshop, interest and time then why not.

 

[DanielT]

And these diy not a beauty but great sound

Exciting speakers.

Yours? If so, did you buy them or build them?

 

[voodooless]

I think the OB vs boxed comparison is way too simplistic. A boxed speaker can have a wide variety of directivity patterns depending on design and drivers used. An OB can as well. By tweaking the geometry, you can create various patterns there as well. What works in a specific room is hard to predict. An OB can sound very good, and can make an objectively good speaker. A boxed speaker as well.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Exciting speakers.

Yours? If so, did you buy them or build them?

I had a friend 5 years ago, a student of technology who lived close to Toulouse, his nickname on forums was Chakal, he liked to experiment a lot, and he had these speakers hanging around. One day he sold me, gave me, these speakers for 70€. I cannot wait in a few weeks when I will buy my WiiM to test them with REW.

 

[DanielT]

I had a friend 5 years ago, a student of technology who lived close to Toulouse, his nickname on forums was Chakal, he liked to experiment a lot, and he had these speakers hanging around. One day he sold me, gave me, these speakers for 70€. I cannot wait in a few weeks when I will buy my WiiM to test them with REW.

Nice.

Do you know what kind of woffers and tweeters are in them (manufacturer/model)?

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

I think the OB vs boxed comparison is way too simplistic. A boxed speaker can have a wide variety of directivity patterns depending on design and drivers used. An OB can as well. By tweaking the geometry, you can create various patterns there as well. What works in a specific room is hard to predict. An OB can sound very good, and can make an objectively good speaker. A boxed speaker as well.

Yes, exactly, that is what I think as well.

Why I think that dismissing a certain type of speaker system
without giving it a chance and compare in the same room,
is moving too fast.

Same thing with the experiences of the man behind Glow In The Dark,
he also is not a beginner, and there must be something behind his
experiences : http://glowinthedarkaudio.com

That is not to say that everyone has to like everything,
we all have our tastes, and it is not, I believe just because
a certain HIFI system shows good on a REW
that it is likable to everyone but of course,
one probably cannot say that a good REW is bad system,
only that we like the sound a lot or less.

Like red and white wine, some people like both,
some like one more than the other,
and someone like nor red, nor white.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Nice.

Do you know what kind of woffers and tweeters are in them (manufacturer/model

Sorry, no, but I am searching to get in touch again with Chakal to find out.

 

[voodooless]

Yes, exactly, that is what I think as well.

Why I think that dismissing a certain type of speaker system
without giving it a chance and compare in the same room,
is moving too fast.

No, sorry, that is NOT what I mean. Some designs are just bad. No room will fix that. You can't polish a turd, or put lipstick on a pig, or win an F1 race with a tractor.

Like red and white wine, some people like both,
some like one more than the other,
and someone like nor red, nor white.

Audio is not really like wine. We know how things should sound because reality tells us. HiFi is the pursuit to reproduce the recorded signals as best as possible.

You won't add salt or sugar to your wine, do you?

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

No, sorry, that is NOT what I mean. Some designs are just bad. No room, fill fix that. You can't polish a turd, or put lipstick on a pig, or win an F1 race with a tractor.

Audio is not really like wine. We know how things should sound because reality tells us. HiFi is the pursuit to reproduce the recorded signals as best as possible.

You won't add salt or sugar to your wine, do you?

yes, of course, I agree, that is why I came here, to avoid thinking that my sound is good when it isn't

 

[Vandemann]

At the time it was the best we could model with the information at hand, and it worked very well in predicting things like planetary positions.

Yes we know for sure. Physics hasn’t changed, we can perfectly model what happens with such drivers.

Great, post a spin so we can see for ourselves. As anecdotal evidence goes, some Facebook posts seem to indicate that these speakers clearly beam. I’m sure they can be made to work in a listening room for a small number of people. For a larger amount of people, this will not work well for numerous reasons.

It’s interesting how nobody bothers to measure these things properly, including the manufacturer.

Can't argue with that...

 

[Bknop]

Raymond,
experimenting with an open baffle P.A. system does sound like fun. I think it can be done, but it does require a decent amount of knowledge to implement. It would have limitations in high volume compared to conventional systems. Volume would be my first question, are you wanting a HiFi system that can cover a large room at moderate listening levels for listening to recorded music and or low volume acoustic bands or loud rock bands? For lower volume, it could work. I personally have not used the Lii drivers, but I have used the Fane 15 300TC full range PA speakers in an open baffle setup. For higher volume with those, they would need a high pass filter to limit cone movement so as to not cause excessive distortion. For open baffle subs, it's either a high qts woofer or for a lower qts woofer with extra power and eq to boost the low end, or a low pass filter. Larger baffles will have less bass cancellation from the front and rear cone waves colliding. An example of an economical woofer would be the Multicomp Pro (MCM Audio) 55-2963. https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/55-2963/woofer-15-350w-32hz-to-3khz-97db/dp/80R7008.
They're about $50 each if ordering 4 or more. It is a high qts woofer, sensitivity is around 92db or so, Fs is around 32hz after breakin. Probably would need 4 per side to increase sensitivity to 98db in the midbass region. Lower bass efficiency will depend on baffle size. Listening without a baffle, close to the woofer, clean xmax is around 5mm, after that, distortion starts to rise to a point where I would stop at 7mm. Electromechanical Xmax power handling for the woofer in open air is probably around 60-80 watts continuous for deep bass, much lower than the electrical power rating. So many woofers are needed for high spl applications, but at least power compression won't be an issue lol.

I would generally advise to use high quality PA equipment, though not cheap, unless you are crazy enough to "think outside the box", have some design knowledge, and don't mind the possibility of making a fool out of yourself. But trying new things is a way of learning.