PS Audio PowerPlant P12 Amplifier Tests (Video)

[amirm]

The arguments for sure are old but the data and analysis is not. And the volume of it across many devices like this. This has to turn some heads and change opinions. Even I find the measurements interesting and fascinating at times.

 

[Kuppenbender]

Lochness Frequency Oscillation?

Acoustic Flux Capacity - can only be accurately measured at some unknown time in the past, or a random point in the future. Hence the problem.

 

[xaviescacs]

And perhaps if PS Audio was internally more self-challenging, they would be less likely to foist unproven tech on their clients, and be better at being, um, "fiduciaries" on behalf of their clients' interests, when those clients don't have EE degrees .

Furthermore, If I were the CEO, I would immediately stop acting like a guru on the net, because then I couldn't blame an engineer of my company from refraining to tell me something that contradicts what I've just pontificated 1 hour ago to the whole world. With all respect, and the man is a nice guy, this is an amateur CEO behavior.

 

[Koeitje]

 

[Koeitje]

Unknown and undiscovered as of yet.

Except null tests already have shown everything is accounted for.

 

[mar1o]

The Video was not boaring. It was really entertaining and educating. I was never aiming to get one of these products, because i think room accoustics and speaker design should be the main focus. Solid engineered amps and dacs complete a proper working system. Nothing more will dramatically improve the performance.
But i still was interested if there could be any scenario, where a power plant or conditioner could make a significant improvement.

 

[TheBatsEar]

They could make all this go away with measurements that support their claims.

My bet, they don't have such measurements.

 

[JanesJr1]

People have been saying the same thing for as long as I can remember in high end audio "what, this debate again? Same thing, no one changes their mind."

But in fact, while certainly there are always people who will dig in their heels, some people do change their minds. And there are tons of people who just don't know either way, who can be educated. Plenty of lurkers who haven't any set in stone position. And there are new people getting in to the hobby all the time. The reddit forums for instance are just filled with new audiophiles asking questions. So long as information comes out, it's always valuable.

In fact, as someone who is not really a "techie" the exchanges on these issues through the years have been immensely valuable to me.

I'm raising my hand! I have changed my mind on stuff that matters to me on dozens of things since I joined this forum!

 

[JSmith]

My bet, they don't have such measurements.

JSmith

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I gather by some replies, that many do not have an inkling to the High End Audio mentality. I used to be one of those subjective audiophiles, for more than 30 years. The subjective audiophiles believe no adverb necessary. They ... believe . This could constitute a fascinating study topic in human psychology in itself, but let's not go there... Those of this persuasion, have learned or taught themselves not to believe in measurements. They believe (that word again, there is no better) that their hearing apparatus are superior, they want to believe so, perhaps need to believe so. It places them in a category of humans, with special abilities. They also have the financial means to acquire those BS products without much consequences. Successful High End Audio companies, understand their market segment. They make sure of going with the grain, with the orthodoxy, the beliefs. PS Audio has been around for a long time, they know the High End Audio crowd doesn't believe in measurements, which works great for them because as we can see it, measurements don't back their claims... Carefully worded intonation of superior performance take their place then.. No measurements .. just BS, or perhaps, BS measurements. Interestingly they find their defenders from all corners, even here in ASR where some do believe that maybe, just maybe, this PowerPlant coud, you-never know, I heard-it or Amir-didn't-test-it-well' kind of intonation....

And they make money this way/ Lot of it... They are one of the many companies making serious money in this market segment and being a detriment to the advancement of High Fidelity. The least we repost their BS the better IMO.

Peace

 

[TheBatsEar]

Just keep quiet, PS Audio, it'll be over soon. ASR will look elsewhere and you can go back to selling snekfat.
You had a choice. Still have.

"Engineers 1000 yard stare" - Low-res-Oil on Canvas, Louvre, Paris, France

 

[KxDx]

The fairest explanation I can give for the the subjectivist view is that there is an as of yet unmeasured variable to which human hearing is effected.

Yes it exists; it's called "hearing what you paid."

It's the belief that diminishing returns isn't a thing and if you paid 10x more for A vs B, then A is a 10x improvement over B. In the real world, anything besides speakers hits diminishing returns pretty quickly. But gosh darn it, I paid $15,000 for this power cord, so nobody's gonna tell me that it doesn't add blacker blacks and airy highs to my system!

No technical term for it yet, but that's all it is.

 

[Geert]

Yes it exists; it's called "hearing what you paid."

Sorry but that's not a variable, it's a constant

 

[Steve Dallas]

People have been saying the same thing for as long as I can remember in high end audio "what, this debate again? Same thing, no one changes their mind."

But in fact, while certainly there are always people who will dig in their heels, some people do change their minds. And there are tons of people who just don't know either way, who can be educated. Plenty of lurkers who haven't any set in stone position. And there are new people getting in to the hobby all the time. The reddit forums for instance are just filled with new audiophiles asking questions. So long as information comes out, it's always valuable.

In fact, as someone who is not really a "techie" the exchanges on these issues through the years have been immensely valuable to me.

I was reachable by ASR. In reaching me, 2 other subjectivists were reached. @amirm 's approach is working and saving people 10s of 1000s of [pick your currency]. ASR cured our GAS, and we are thankful.

 

[nikosidis]

It is not something very new about how stupid cables and power generators are, but it still kind of is.
Amir that know electronics inn and out and have the best kind of measure equipment can prove this to people through youtube and internet!

 

[brandall10]

I was reachable by ASR. In reaching me, 2 other subjectivists were reached. @amirm 's approach is working and saving people 10s of 1000s of [pick your currency]. ASR cured our GAS, and we are thankful.

I found head-fi nearly 20 years ago, and for about 15 years, even in light of their Sound Science forum, was a pretty ardent subjectivist. For about 10 years I primarily listened to NOS DACs and tube amps.

Unsure why ASR spoke to me when I first discovered it in 2017... it didn't happen overnight but maybe over the period of a year, then I was forever changed.

 

[ahofer]

Sorry but that's not a variable, it's a constant

I think it diminishes with the square of time since purchase, requiring more upgrades.

 

[brandall10]

Just keep quiet, PS Audio, it'll be over soon. ASR will look elsewhere and you can go back to selling snekfat.

One interesting response to ASR is Schiit Audio. Their product line up and down appeared to be terrible per measurements here... and then miraculously, their bargain-priced offerings became excellent after another generation - zero to hero virtually overnight.

I don't even know if there's been any change on the high-end and perhaps there doesn't need to be, but it's interesting none the less, esp. as that company is staffed by industry veterans and is firmly entrenched in the head-fi hive mind.

 

[DrJayDub]

So much energy spent on these discussions and Amirm testing the product.

If PS Audio wants to demonstrate the value, why don’t they just publish their methods and results?

Maybe I am too much the scientist…..

 

[Geert]

If PS Audio wants to demonstrate the value, why don’t they just publish their methods and results?

Their customers can hear the value, so no extra effort is required