PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

[Gringoaudio1]

Looks like you exagerated to me.

You persist in blaming Canada. Have you considered that Canada sells heaps of electricity power to the USA and is tied in 4 or 5 lines to the USA grid for bi-directional power sharing. The standard is 60 Hz at 120V and it is kept to a standard and all your exaggerating and name calling (Canada) will not change that.

Agree. That’s crap. In the past I have toured a network of power generation facilities and the main control room for what was then Calgary Power (now Atco). They have all sorts of alarms and systems to correct any fluctuations on the power going into the grid. They can’t be pumping power into a grid continent wide that doesn’t match the frequency, power factor etc. Harmonics are filtered before they get to the grid.
Perhaps in heavily industrial areas surges of demand and relaxation of demand could cause issues? Maybe a fallen tree across a couple of lines could? But only very locally. Transformers would also isolate factories from the grid somewhat. Again this is bullshit invented to sell power conditioning units.

 

[antcollinet]

You mean that with AWG14 the sound is better than with AWG12 ?

No, they will both sound the same within normal lengths. So no need for the extra cost, and flexibility reduction of 12.

 

[Ismapics]

I didn't said that Canada is faulty: mention that in Canada, as opposed to the United States, the power quality is not good.

Hey I am in Puerto Rico, notoriously the worst AC in the US. Still all my gear is plugged to the wall. All modern electronics use regulated power supplies and will protect themselves from fluctuations. They simply stop working. So quality of the mains should not be an issue. My AC is stable enough that there is no need for any additional gear. However, if you feel your fluctuations are such that may interrupt you listening get a UPS.

 

[VicMax]

Looks like you exagerated to me.

You persist in blaming Canada.

No, I don't blame Canada. You don't understand. I blame the organizations and companies that provide electricity to Canada, which is not the same thing at all, but you pretend not to understand.
I live in the province of Quebec, and no, I didn't exaggerate.
Hydro-Quebec's electricity service is awful:
- Frequent outages during strong winds,
- Micro-cuts during the day (and without UPS for a computer, you lose your data in memory and those that are being written to your hard drive which then becomes in a corrupt state),
- Denials of service lasting several hours.
Now, if you don't believe me, I can't do anything for you.
(no need to answer me, we're wasting our time unnecessarily)

 

[voodooless]

I blame the organizations and companies that provide electricity to Canada

Well, the good news is that they seem to have budgeted about 50 billion dollar to fix this in the next decade or so.

 

[Doodski]

No, I don't blame Canada. You don't understand. I blame the organizations and companies that provide electricity to Canada, which is not the same thing at all, but you pretend not to understand.
I live in the province of Quebec, and no, I didn't exaggerate.
Hydro-Quebec's electricity service is awful:
- Frequent outages during strong winds,
- Micro-cuts during the day (and without UPS for a computer, you lose your data in memory and those that are being written to your hard drive which then becomes in a corrupt state),
- Denials of service lasting several hours.
Now, if you don't believe me, I can't do anything for you.
(no need to answer me, we're wasting our time unnecessarily)

You still seem to think that Quebec is all of Canada and what happens electrically in Quebec relates to all of Canada's electrical service providers. I am in wonderful Alberta the greatest contributor to both it's own services and also to Quebec's too and we have reliable great low GHG/carbon electrical power service as does BC and seemingly every other province. Perhaps you would be happier and better serviced electrically by living outside Quebec and then you can see the reality of what proper electrical services are available. Anyway what happens in Quebec is not what is happening outside Quebec by electrical service providers so please stop referring to your apparent localized electrical power service issues as, "All of Canada." You do not represent all of Canada nor are you aware of the reality of electrical power services across Canada. Sigh*

 

[Spkrdctr]

You still seem to think that Quebec is all of Canada and what happens electrically in Quebec relates to all of Canada's electrical service providers. I am in wonderful Alberta the greatest contributor to both it's own services and also to Quebec's too and we have reliable great low GHG/carbon electrical power service as does BC and seemingly every other province. Perhaps you would be happier and better serviced electrically by living outside Quebec and then you can see the reality of what proper electrical services are available. Anyway what happens in Quebec is not what is happening outside Quebec by electrical service providers so please stop referring to your apparent localized electrical power service issues as, "All of Canada." You do not represent all of Canada nor are you aware of the reality of electrical power services across Canada. Sigh*

Doodski you don't' speak that evil French language do you? LOL

 

[Doodski]

Doodski you don't' speak that evil French language do you? LOL

Only what I was forced to study up till grade 9.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Doodski you don't' speak that evil French language do you? LOL

Why "Québécois" would be an evil french language ?

 

[Doodski]

Why "Québécois" would be an evil french language ?

I can't comment in the forum about this.

 

[im_gumby]

Hey I am in Puerto Rico, notoriously the worst AC in the US. Still all my gear is plugged to the wall. All modern electronics use regulated power supplies and will protect themselves from fluctuations. They simply stop working. So quality of the mains should not be an issue. My AC is stable enough that there is no need for any additional gear. However, if you feel your fluctuations are such that may interrupt you listening get a UPS.

Uhm no.
They don't and you need a minimal amount of protection against surges, spikes and brownouts.

Your home appliances can take a hit and get damaged from either a spike or a brownout.

All of my computers are on APCs or Tripp Lite power line conditioners.
When I moved back to Chicago, in our new place... put in a 20amp line which I plug in my rack's UPS and power line conditioner.

I'd say run out to HomeDepot or similar and get simple surge protectors for your home where you plug in appliances.

 

[im_gumby]

I always wonder why people spend $$$ on 'audiophile' grade network switches and power supply/power conditioners.

I mean take Eaton for example, https://tripplite.eaton.com/

I wonder how some of these products would test out.

I would love to see a power line conditioner w battery backup that also outputs 'perfect sine wave'.

Has Amir ever tested this class? I mean the most expensive would be less than 2K closer to $1200.00

In terms of networks... how does a 10GbE commercial grade switch compare to 1GbE 'audiophile' switch?

Just asking...

 

[antcollinet]

I always wonder why people spend $$$ on 'audiophile' grade network switches and power supply/power conditioners.

I mean take Eaton for example, https://tripplite.eaton.com/

I wonder how some of these products would test out.

I would love to see a power line conditioner w battery backup that also outputs 'perfect sine wave'.

Has Amir ever tested this class? I mean the most expensive would be less than 2K closer to $1200.00

In terms of networks... how does a 10GbE commercial grade switch compare to 1GbE 'audiophile' switch?

Just asking...

These things are generally not tested because engineers who understand how audio stuff works know they make no difference to audio performance. Testing therefore becomes mainly a waste of time.

When they are tested - such as in the OP of this thread, and for a network switch here:

Silent Angel Bonn N8 Audio Grade Ethernet Switch

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Silent Angel (Thunder Data) Bonn N8 8-port gigabite audiophile Ethernet switch. It is on kind loan from a member. It seems to cost US $399. As a way of comparison, a brand name switch without the "audio grade" designation costs US $35 so about...

www.audiosciencereview.com

these engineering assessments are never contradicted.

 

[im_gumby]

These things are generally not tested because engineers who understand how audio stuff works know they make no difference to audio performance. Testing therefore becomes mainly a waste of time.

When they are tested - such as in the OP of this thread, and for a network switch here:

Silent Angel Bonn N8 Audio Grade Ethernet Switch

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Silent Angel (Thunder Data) Bonn N8 8-port gigabite audiophile Ethernet switch. It is on kind loan from a member. It seems to cost US $399. As a way of comparison, a brand name switch without the "audio grade" designation costs US $35 so about...

www.audiosciencereview.com

these engineering assessments are never contradicted.

That's the point.

I do recommend that anyone who has expensive audio or computer equipment get a power line conditioner or a battery backup unit that will do this. Not all battery backups / line protectors will do this. For my servers, I was lucky that all I needed was a 20amp plug wall socket installed where I wanted the rack. In my office I mounted a small APC unit under my lift desk and it protects my desktop machines. Everything else is on a surge protector.
[edit]
I want to make it clear that you're adding the line conditioner to protect your equipment from both surge / spikes and brown outs. You can also talk to an electrician about adding a whole house solution to your patch panel which isn't that expensive... Its not about the sound, but protection of expensive equipment.

When I moved into a new home, bought a new 75" TV. A week later, during a storm, the TV got damaged. Was it a defect in the panel or a power surge? Don't know.
Samsung replaced the panel... and I bought 10 ~$20.00 wall plug in surge protectors that fit into the outlet and put them around the house. (They also had USB-A charging ports) Had other storms... surges... no other damage.
[/edit]

But spending $$$$ for 'audiograde' is a joke. If you are worried about jitter or smearing... get a 10GbE RJ45 switch and use CAT 7 patch cables.
Yes you're spending more ( over CAT5 cables) but its not a crazy price difference. The CAT 7 cables are designed for 10GbE and have better shielding.
[edit]
The upside... newer computers have 10GbE built-in now. So somewhat 'future proofing' the desktop. Now if you want to spend $10K on a 16 port 100GbE switch and ~$1.5K - 2.5K on a networking card per server... I can assure you that switch isn't going to have any issue... except you'll spend $$ for connection cables and break outs to RJ45 copper connections...

And I think it may be cheaper than some of the audio grade switches. ;-)
[/edit]

 

[Ismapics]

Uhm no.
They don't and you need a minimal amount of protection against surges, spikes and brownouts.

Your home appliances can take a hit and get damaged from either a spike or a brownout.

All of my computers are on APCs or Tripp Lite power line conditioners.
When I moved back to Chicago, in our new place... put in a 20amp line which I plug in my rack's UPS and power line conditioner.

I'd say run out to HomeDepot or similar and get simple surge protectors for your home where you plug in appliances.

Never had a problem.

 

[im_gumby]

Never had a problem.

Until you do.

When I lived in an apartment building ~30yrs ago... I had a couple of machines sitting on a Tripp Lite box.
While I didn't have any failures... I'd notice that during the day the box would click and you'd see the LEDs showing line quality change from normal to low.
Occasionally a surge. If I didn't have this ... I'd never know that there were issues.

I guess it depends on the cost of the equipment you want or need to protect.

 

[Doodski]

Until you do.

When I lived in an apartment building ~30yrs ago... I had a couple of machines sitting on a Tripp Lite box.
While I didn't have any failures... I'd notice that during the day the box would click and you'd see the LEDs showing line quality change from normal to low.
Occasionally a surge. If I didn't have this ... I'd never know that there were issues.

I guess it depends on the cost of the equipment you want or need to protect.

I agree that things go well until they don't because it is practical and not exaggerating to say this in regards to life and experiences. I'm not so sure though that this PS Audio Powerplant is the solution. I think that the premise of the power smoothing, cleaning and protection is derived from large industrial devices that actually do this. I have worked with them in a metrology lab and the better one was a forklift small pallet size and cost $50,000. I think PS Audio and others are taking a existing good idea and then providing some stuff but not 100% of what is required.

 

[im_gumby]

I agree that things go well until they don't because it is practical and not exaggerating to say this in regards to life and experiences. I'm not so sure though that this PS Audio Powerplant is the solution. I think that the premise of the power smoothing, cleaning and protection is derived from large industrial devices that actually do this. I have worked with them in a metrology lab and the better one was a forklift small pallet size and cost $50,000. I think PS Audio and others are taking a existing good idea and then providing some stuff but not 100% of what is required.

LOL
Oh sorry, I didn't mean that you should go out and buy the PS Audio Powerplant.
I don't see their value over far cheaper solutions.

You can go to MicroCenter and get an APC battery backup that is quiet and offers similar protection for ~$180 depending on features.
If you want something comparable to the Powerplant... Eaton makes rack mount battery backups but you'll need a 20amp line and plug.
But its only around ~1K not 5K.

 

[Doodski]

LOL
Oh sorry, I didn't mean that you should go out and buy the PS Audio Powerplant.
I don't see their value over far cheaper solutions.

You can go to MicroCenter and get an APC battery backup that is quiet and offers similar protection for ~$180 depending on features.
If you want something comparable to the Powerplant... Eaton makes rack mount battery backups but you'll need a 20amp line and plug.
But its only around ~1K not 5K.

Prices have come down apparently. I was looking at this one in the mid'ish 90s and it was for powering the ~entire lab.

 

[amirm]

In my office I mounted a small APC unit under my lift desk and it protects my desktop machines. Everything else is on a surge protector.

All bad practices. Those things are poorly designed and will cause a fire by themselves in a real surge. See this video:

You should deploy whole house protection where there is a path to proper earth. And make sure to use a quality product with protection fuses.