PS Audio P12 Review Part 2: Power Testing

[thorvat]

That doesn’t really matter does it? You should not confuse one made up animal with another. The description clearly states: “Cute little worm”

Look by yourself, description is clearly wrong - it's a cute little snake and it's also oiled.

 

[Koeitje]

 

[charleski]

PS Audio makes specific and repeated claims that their power regenerators lower AC power supply impedance:

Lowering impedance

The lower the AC impedance feeding high-end audio equipment the better each piece sounds. And when the entire system is fed with low impedance power the results can often be breathtakingly better. But, how do engineers lower impedance? That question's not simple to answer but I am going to try...

www.psaudio.com

The Power Of Impedance

I am not sure if the headline of today’s post is entirely accurate but I just loved the way it read. I am not a poet but I am taking license. Over the last two days, we’ve been discussing output impedance as it applies to power amps and loudspeakers. It’s time to move the impedance conversation...

www.psaudio.com

The revelation that it's actually ten times higher than the naked mains supply should raise regulatory concerns.

 

[Lambda]

As you see, impedance has jumped to 3 ohm or more than 10 times higher! I should note that I don't know how accurate this measurement is but given the wide differential, we can likely rely on the fact that PS Audio P12 *system* does have higher impedance. I wrote "system" there because P12 introduces yet another AC cord and outlet so naturally those contribute to degrading its impedance. In other words, we are measuring the whole thing, not just some internal impedance.

Was this in "High regulation" or "low distortion" mode?
if there marketing is right there shuld be a difference in impedance.

 

[Count De Money]

In short term, this may bring them some money, but in a few years they'll end up broke, or sold, or both IMHO.
Sic transit gloria Mundi. It seems, one can't trust any brand, anyway.

 

[Soniclife]

Well, I was assured by the supplier that pink panthers are a unique and ancient species or I would have never used them!!!

You didn't ask for measurements from the vendor before you bought them .

 

[MC_RME]

@amirm : I would be interested to know what impedance the Ideal measures on your BK Precision 9801.

 

[Hayabusa]

>>As you see, we lost 7.5% power in both continuous and burst power. As should be the case as the PS Audio P12 is introducing losses in the AC line.


@amirm: What was AC voltage in and out of the PS Audio? If the PS audio is outputing exactly 120v and for instance your power line is 124v, this could explain the 7.5% power difference.
(In this case you could adjust the voltage out to match the voltage in)

The 3ohm output impedance is really bad, you would expect it to be much lower...

 

[shal]

He is a very cute little snake. If there are no copyright issues, I agree. Amir could/should use it. He even has an airhead look on his face like there is not much between the ears. Kind of the look like "I can hear the magic!" Perfect specimen!

Snake is a very good avatar for this kind of product : snakes haven't ears !!

 

[manisandher]

@amirm isn't the max output of the Outlaw 2220 beyond the P12's output specs? Assuming you were running both channels, you'd expect to come up against a brick wall at around 350Wpc continuous. Or am I missing something here?

I'm sure you're keen to put this one to bed, but it would've been interesting to test the P12 with, say, a 100W amp, so that the P12 stays within its output specs at all times.

 

[mhardy6647]

I suppose it would be too precious to say of a product like this one that it comes up snake eyes...

I suppose...

 

[MZKM]

@amirm isn't the max output of the Outlaw 2220 beyond the P12's output specs? Assuming you were running both channels, you'd expect to come up against a brick wall at around 350Wpc continuous. Or am I missing something here?

I'm sure you're keen to put this one to bed, but it would've been interesting to test the P12 with, say, a 100W amp, so that the P12 stays within its output specs at all times.

The product page states 1250W output for each outlet; since the “raw” AC measurements didn’t reach 600W per channel (or mono), then it should not be over the limit capable of the P12.

 

[voodooless]

The product page states 1250W output for each outlet; since the “raw” AC measurements didn’t reach 600W per channel (or mono), then it should not be over the limit capable of the P12.

It’s 1000VA continuous for the US version total (3600VA peak, whatever that means). So yes, the amp is on the edge of what the unit can deliver.

 

[Vini darko]

Thanks for additional data Amir. My trust level in expensive wires is extreamly low. Would it be possible to check the resitance or impedance of that mains wire you used?

 

[TravPhilly]

This. Loose thought from a non-engineer: If a bog standard PSU for 50-100$ will suffice to feed a big gaming PC, with its much more stringent power quality requirements than any home Hi-Fi device, there's probably no much real need for such a "regenerator". The only exception in my life so far was with my Neumann KH 310A, which were "upset" (intermittently protection LED on for a second and clicking) by outside interference, probably by some agricultural machinery nearby.
A small, affordable filter eradicated the problem: https://www.thomann.de/de/furman_ac210_power_conditioner.htm

I have a couple Furman filtering strips one of which did the trick with a ground loop hum introduced by Verizon FiOS TV coax to the tuner incorporated into my main stereo.

 

[solderdude]

The mains direct was 0.26 Ohms.

Ah yes... the decimal point.

 

[sarumbear]

Well, I was assured by the supplier that pink panthers are a unique and ancient species or I would have never used them!!!

@amirm how much are you paying your panthers? How much are their appearance fee on their contract? Are you doing a "Sony" and making them work for a pittance a la George Michael?

 

[Hipster Doofus]

If you want to split hair than consider that "panther" doesn't even exist as a species and panthera is not a species but a genus.

P.S. to clarify: black or white panther actually refers to jaguar or leopard as panther itself is not a species

So true ….the pink panther is a genius

 

[mightycicadalord]

I take it there's no kind of regulation for this product to meet it's claims or really any other power filtering unit out there? You can just kind of make whatever and sell it I guess.

I miss the speaker reviews.

 

[iraweiss]

I am currently powering my systems through a CyberPower BRG1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System 1500VA/900W, 12 Outlets, AVR. https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/intelligent-lcd/brg1500avrlcd/

The system includes low power stuff like cable box, Sony TV, 4K Blu-Ray, and other audio sources. It also includes a Yamaha RX-A3080 receiver and three Outlaw 2220 amps (looking forward to the test!) and three subs.

Everything is currently plugged into the Battery Backup outlets of the UPS. I bought the UPS because frankly at times our electricity sucks with one-two second power interruptions that can wreck havoc on electronics I don't want damaged. It's also not much fine resetting clocks all over the house.

It's plugged into a 20 amp outlet.

BTW as an Amazon "Deal of the day" it cost me $130.69 including sales tax. I bought three for the family room theater, bedroom and exercise room. That's a fraction of the PS Audio unit under test here.

When running everything in the system and playing everything as loud as I can stand the display on the UPS shows I am using a fraction of the rated power. Listening to music as I type the UPS is displaying 243 W and 290 VA output.

Should I move the receiver and amps to the surge protector side of the UPS? Or should I plug them directly into the wall with a power strip? Or, is the safety to the equipment provided by the UPS worth the slight power loss?