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PS Audio M700 Monoblock Amplifier Review

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cistercian

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Good reply. And they'll go deaf on the peaks

The compression the human ear experiences is very real. Of course this does not apply to the impact felt by
the body with bass slams. You need lots of power for that.
The reality is enormous power is great to have...and coupling it with efficient speakers helps a lot. It really
does sound better.
 

MZKM

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Has PS Audio ever explained exactly what their “gain cell” is supposed to do? I know it is a potted module that you cannot disassemble or see inside, and they have been using it for about 20 years. They’ve never really explained what it is, though.
You mean the Analog Cell?
“The Analog Cell is the heart of the M700’s musicality, where richly overlayed layers of music’s inner details are preserved even in the most complex orchestral crescendos. The Analog Cell is a proprietary, fully differential, zero feedback, discrete, Class A MOSFET circuit, hand-tuned to capture the smallest micro dynamics without sacrificing the loudest macro dynamics music has to offer.”

It mainly is to reduce the input sensitivity of this from 2.3Vrms to 1.6Vrms, which allows most AVRs to power them.
 

restorer-john

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Most 70s speakers I recall were modestly sized. Often stand mounted. Today's tend to be much larger.

They say if you remember the 60s/70s, you weren't there. :)

1960s speakers were huge, incredibly efficient and could be blown with a few watts.
1970s speakers were large, efficient and low power handling.
1980s speakers were smaller, less efficient and greater power handling.
1990s speakers were taller, slimmer, less efficient again and much high power handling
2000-2020 speakers are evolutions of that, along with some extremely high powered but low efficiency types.
 

PeteL

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He most likely didn't do anything and just slapped an ICEpower module in an enclosure and called it a day. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but the price should reflect that.
That is misunderstanding what a Power amp is.And also misunderstanding what putting a product to market really cost. Keep in mind that NCore based amps by NAD or ATI's are in the same price bracket. To me we may critic design choices but it's reasonably priced when you look at competitors, and when you look at the cost of the parts in it.
 

GaryMnz

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New thread for this discussion?

It would be good. I think the discussion is done though. Perhaps our host will take up the challenge and make it a report with ensuing discussion.

By the way, there is a very good thread on diyaudio about the amount of power needed. It puts forward a simple test anyone can do. I would challenge our host to use that technique as well, or to refute it if he thinks it is wrong.
 

cistercian

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They were very different. Much larger boxes. Today, there is pressure to not have big boxes in people's living rooms so sensitivity has dropped as a result.

Speakers need to be big to sound good in my experience. I am referring to higher than typical home use SPL
when I say that. My speakers are tall and fat...lots of volume. And 15 inch LF driver. I like 18" even more but even I
have limits for practical use. Even @ 95db@1watt/meter my speakers need power for bass. Lots of it.
Since they have horn HF and MF drivers the LF driver is the power pig and the bass reflex design and large volume help...

But they still need power, and lots of it for peaks. I was prepared to buy another 2502 amp and run one amp per
channel bridged if I needed it. But the room the system is in is small so I lucked out and one amp is enough for club level SPL
when I am so inclined. Bass is...epic. Like a live show on demand.
 

Racheski

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It would be good. I think the discussion is done though. Perhaps our host will take up the challenge and make it a report with ensuing discussion.

By the way, there is a very good thread on diyaudio about the amount of power needed. It puts forward a simple test anyone can do. I would challenge our host to use that technique as well, or to refute it if he thinks it is wrong.
Yeah that's what we need, another thread attacking Amir based on logical fallacies.
 

Xulonn

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For example, for some number of milliseconds (microseconds?) the attack of a well-recorded snare drum is orders of magnitude louder than just about anything else likely to be happening in your music.

Latin jazz and dance music is one of my favorites, so I assume that "snare drum power requirement" applies to timbales as well...


And of course, as a resident of Panama, I probably need a few hundred more watts perchannel to listen properly to music like that played by these Panamanians in Brooklyn...

 

Sir Sanders Zingmore

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This declared need for high power levels for typical loudspeakers. Please play some music on your own system at your normal loudish listening level (ie what would be the acceptable max under normal conditions for you) put a scope across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak voltage you see.

If you actually do this you’ll probably see clipping on your scope
 

restorer-john

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Maybe, but that isn't the point. The point is just to make a real world measurement.

A scope over the speaker terminals showing clipping on transients is a 'real world' measurement...
 

RayDunzl

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Assuming we're listing to music and not pink noise, I find it's all about a system's ability to play those brief transient musical peaks with no distortion.

I won't argue against low distortion.

For example, for some number of milliseconds (microseconds?) the attack of a well-recorded snare drum is orders of magnitude louder than just about anything else likely to be happening in your music. That's the sort of trick that requires efficient speakers and/or absolute gobs of power (and, I guess, an impressive slew rate?) to pull off in a convincing way.

The snare may be perceptually louder, but it is unlikely to be prompting the amplifier to output more power.

The slew rate of any competent amplifier should be sufficient to handle the frequencies and signal slope.

The output wave of an amplifier (that's voltage) will follow the wave that is input to it.

Since "most" of our modern music presses the limits of the digital medium, I don't see any additional burst of power magnitudes greater than what just came before when some different sound is produced.

The bass guitar note that digitally presses 0dBfs will excite the amplifier to produce the same voltage levels as a snare hit that presses 0dBfs. That, to me, infers the same instantaneous power output.

There are perceptual differences between the bass and snare, because of the different frequencies involved, and their concentration and timing, but if I see the same voltage level produced by different "sounds" in the recording, I don't see any of them asking the amplifier to output "absolute gobs of power" beyond what it was already doing on different sections of the music.
 

PeteL

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I won't argue against low distortion.



The snare may be perceptually louder, but it is unlikely to be prompting the amplifier to output more power.

The slew rate of any competent amplifier should be sufficient to handle the frequencies and signal slope.

The output wave of an amplifier (that's voltage) will follow the wave that is input to it.

Since "most" of our modern music presses the limits of the digital medium, I don't see any additional burst of power magnitudes greater than what just came before when some different sound is produced.

The bass guitar note that presses 0dBfs will excite the amplifier to produce the same voltage levels as a snare hit that presses 0dB. That, to me, infers the same instantaneous power output.

There are perceptual differences between the bass and snare, because of the different frequencies involved, and their concentration and timing, but if I see the same voltage level produced by different "sounds" in the recording, I don't see any of them asking the amplifier to output "absolute gobs of power" beyond what it was already doing on different sections of the music.
I think the point here that was being made is that most peaks that hits 0dBFS are going to be percussive attacks. If your recording have bass guitar notes that reach 0dBFS, It's an extremely compressed recording (The late 90's loudness war is over, we see more dynamic recordings now)
 
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