PS Audio FR30 speakers

[Chris Brunhaver]

Well, the feedback MAD Audio sound impressions video seemed pretty accurate, though the specifics of the imaging and things has a lot to do with setup and other factors. The listening was done at our German distributor's listening room, https://www.hifi2die4.de/.

We also made it onto the cover of the October issues of The Absolute Sound magazine along with a 15 page review (with a lot of photos). They gave the speaker their "golden ear award", which I understand is their highest honor.

We'll be releasing a new, slightly smaller model of speaker (we're calling FR20). I'm not certain of the final pricing but I believe that it will be about 30% less expensive, with the most notable difference being that it uses 1/2 the woofer section (2 x 8" woofers and 2 x 10 PRs versus the 4 on the FR30) and a smaller single cabinet design, so it will look t home in a lot more rooms and systems.

I'm also working on a 6.5" woofer for some smaller and less expensive models (bookshelf and smaller tower). I've attached a picture of some of the prototypes which use a carbon fiber and Rohacell foam composite cone and a similarly advanced motor design. We're not targeting $2000 with the bookshelf product (in this product line), maybe a bit above that (I don't think that $3k is out of the question but we haven't finished and quoted the cabinet design yet). We are planning have some future product lines with less expensive cabinet construction and finishes that will be at those prices and below.

We're not targeting a 60 Hz cutoff on the bookshelf product because that is slightly too high for a speaker to be used without a subwoofer comfortably (another half octave or so makes a big difference in a lot of music). As such, we're not targeting very high sensitivity (in the 85 dB at 2,83V range). However, having a lot of linearity in the woofer (+/- 9-10 mm for BL based Xmax gives a lot of output capability, kind of like the approach that Purifi is doing with their woofers (though the actual design is pretty different).

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Well, the feedback MAD Audio sound impressions video seemed pretty accurate, though the specifics of the imaging and things has a lot to do with setup and other factors. The listening was done at our German distributor's listening room, https://www.hifi2die4.de/.

We also made it onto the cover of the October issues of The Absolute Sound magazine along with a 15 page review (with a lot of photos). They gave the speaker their "golden ear award", which I understand is their highest honor.

We'll be releasing a new, slightly smaller model of speaker (we're calling FR20). I'm not certain of the final pricing but I believe that it will be about 30% less expensive, with the most notable difference being that it uses 1/2 the woofer section (2 x 8" woofers and 2 x 10 PRs versus the 4 on the FR30) and a smaller single cabinet design, so it will look t home in a lot more rooms and systems.

I'm also working on a 6.5" woofer for some smaller and less expensive models (bookshelf and smaller tower). I've attached a picture of some of the prototypes which use a carbon fiber and Rohacell foam composite cone and a similarly advanced motor design. We're not targeting $2000 with the bookshelf product (in this product line), maybe a bit above that (I don't think that $3k is out of the question but we haven't finished and quoted the cabinet design yet). We are planning have some future product lines with less expensive cabinet construction and finishes that will be at those prices and below.

We're not targeting a 60 Hz cutoff on the bookshelf product because that is slightly too high for a speaker to be used without a subwoofer comfortably (another half octave or so makes a big difference in a lot of music). As such, we're not targeting very high sensitivity (in the 85 dB at 2,83V range). However, having a lot of linearity in the woofer (+/- 9-10 mm for BL based Xmax gives a lot of output capability, kind of like the approach that Purifi is doing with their woofers (though the actual design is pretty different).

All of i want about you guys is give us prices down to the earth , i wish the best luck to you and your company.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

Well, I understand that completely and thanks for the well wishes. We'll try! However, in a given product line, it wouldn't make sense to use completely different materials and technology on one model than another. That is something that would be for a different product line (less expensive components and finishes). If you look at most product lines, there is typically about a 30-50 percent difference in pricing between models, at most, unless it's crazy ultrafi products that are closer to doubling price between models.

As a designer, I would like to do much less expensive models but PS Audio isn't necessarily set up for that, e.g. the things required for the fulfillment, service and support for large amount of customer and smaller orders.

It's also "pay to play" with mass market price points because you need to start ordering things in many thousands as opposed to hundreds, at tighter margins and it isn't necessarily healthy from a business perspective (without some organizational and financial changes).

 

[Sal1950]

As a designer, I would like to do much less expensive models but PS Audio isn't necessarily set up for that, e.g. the things required for the fulfillment, service and support for large amount of customer and smaller orders.

I fully understand that top quality in any product doesn't come cheaply.
What I'm interested in seeing is one sent to ASR for detailed measurements to find out the real results of your engineering.
TIA.

 

[YSC]

I fully understand that top quality in any product doesn't come cheaply.
What I'm interested in seeing is one sent to ASR for detailed measurements to find out the real results of your engineering.
TIA.

Same here, the in room of FR30 looking very good but then we don’t know for sure how much is room treatment and dsp or so affecting it. Would be best if some more objective data is present

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Same here, the in room of FR30 looking very good but then we don’t know for sure how much is room treatment and dsp or so affecting it. Would be best if some more objective data is present

Unlikely in my opinion given Pauls principal market for these is well-heeled audiophiles who have little interest in objective data. Still I fully agree objective data would be best.

 

[YSC]

Unlikely in my opinion given Pauls principal market for these is well-heeled audiophiles who have little interest in objective data. Still I fully agree objective data would be best.

yea especially for those upcoming down the line bookshelf or so which should be easier to send to amirm or Erin, sometimes I have the feel that seeing those superlatives review or in local store with who know what DSP and treatment applied and buying blind just to find out you need a hell of an effort to recreate all those tuning in your room is a recipe of disaster, so I would personally just start off with something measuring good

 

[Sal1950]

Unlikely in my opinion given Pauls principal market for these is well-heeled audiophiles who have little interest in objective data.

You can run but you can't hide.
Sooner or later someone will point a mic at it, even if its Stereophile.
You may need to read between the lines there, but the truth is mostly in Atkinson's numbers.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

yea especially for those upcoming down the line bookshelf or so which should be easier to send to amirm or Erin, sometimes I have the feel that seeing those superlatives review or in local store with who know what DSP and treatment applied and buying blind just to find out you need a hell of an effort to recreate all those tuning in your room is a recipe of disaster, so I would personally just start off with something measuring good

Definitely. Even if I heard them first-hand and knew it was just the speaker without any dsp, I would still be hesitant to buy them sans any real measurements. Just too many variables involved. The published measurements of the FR30 that do exist that show it with boosted treble. If accurate and true, they indicate that it potentially has substantial if not profound directivity error if the on-axis needs to climb like that to get the in-room to be roughly flat. In my fairly dead space that would cause the room response to tilt down in the opposite direction. Now, it’s possible that was done at Paul’s behest for his sparkly speakers he likes, and the current production units may be well behaved, but without measurements we just don’t know.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

You can run but you can't hide.
Sooner or later someone will point a mic at it, even if its Stereophile.
You may need to read between the lines there, but the truth is mostly in Atkinson's numbers.

Or one of its little siblings. As they go on down the line, that becomes pretty much guaranteed. Hard to ship an awkward 230 lb speaker, easy to ship a 30 lb bookshelf one. But given the small potatoes will be more for the rest of us plebs, they will probably measure like we expect them to. Still, I hope the FR30 does get its day in the spotlight, sort of speak. I think that’s the one we want to see the most.

 

[Spkrdctr]

As a designer, I would like to do much less expensive models but PS Audio isn't necessarily set up for that, e.g. the things required for the fulfillment, service and support for large amount of customer and smaller orders.

It's also "pay to play" with mass market price points because you need to start ordering things in many thousands as opposed to hundreds, at tighter margins and it isn't necessarily healthy from a business perspective (without some organizational and financial changes).

Chris, you just answered many peoples questions on this thread. Some of us know this but to hear you say it makes it more true for the average reader. I agree with you, PS Audio could not play in the big mass market space as you would have to triple your company size and hope (pray) that you always do the volume you need to stay afloat. I would think that a $3000 a pair set of speaker may be as low as you could go. Still affordable yet not produced in the numbers like a $1000 pair of speakers. The $3000 a pair buyers will be a lot less and those more interested in great sound from a good company.

As always, thank you for coming on here and dispensing some real wisdom about making and selling speakers. Much appreciated.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

Well, I think that we may end up having to give an exclusive to a magazine to get a review on our next speaker model (aspen FR20). That's a little outside my purview. However, I would be interested in sending out one of the next models down (we're doing a smaller tower and bookshelf speaker for next year) for measurement by someone like Amir or Erin.

Regarding the FR30 youtube review in Germany, Fidelity Magazine also did a bit write up in their issue from last month and will be posting an English translated review online pretty soon, I think, with a bunch of pictures. There wasn't any DSP in the system and Jurgen's room appears to have pretty minimal treatment (though there is a little). In a more damped room, yes, there would be more of the expected downward tilt in the in-room response.

 

[Cbdb2]

After years of reading/hearing BSaudios fantasies and lies I wouldn't buy anything from them.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

Well, there is no need for vitriol. The nice thing about this hobby is that you get to choose what brands you like and support.

While it's been a bit of a slow process (to get the kind of stuff this forum is interested in), I fully plan to get more data and and some of the smaller products out in the community for review etc. It's mainly just me doing everything on the speakers (including all of the production engineering and QC) here and so it's a slow process.

 

[Sal1950]

While it's been a bit of a slow process (to get the kind of stuff this forum is interested in), I filly plan to get more data and and some of the smaller products out in the community for review etc. It's mainly just me doing everything on the speakers (including all of the production engineering and QC) here and so it's a slow process.

Thanks Chris!
We do appreciate your participation in this forum.
Cheers,
Sal

 

[Cbdb2]

Took me about a minute on there website to find a lie.

From the marketing for a ridiculously priced power cable: "Stock power cables constrict or compress the audio transient as their characteristic impedance restricts the transient current."

I guess they forgot to put caps in there power supplies. Why would you buy anything from people who know nothing about electronics, or lie about it.

 

[Cbdb2]

Well, there is no need for vitriol. The nice thing about this hobby is that you get to choose what brands you like and support.

While it's been a bit of a slow process (to get the kind of stuff this forum is interested in), I filly plan to get more data and and some of the smaller products out in the community for review etc. It's mainly just me doing everything on the speakers (including all of the production engineering and QC) here and so it's a slow process.

Actually there is a need for vitriol. The nasty thing about this hobby is that the lies are common place, probably more than the truth and the consumers don't know what to believe and make bad choices often wasting money on useless upgrades. People like Paul are at the forefront of this deception. Once a used car sales man...

Thee speakers might be great but I would not even audition them. I know they will be overpriced.

 

[fpitas]

Took me about a minute on there website to find a lie.

From the marketing for a ridiculously priced power cable: "Stock power cables constrict or compress the audio transient as their characteristic impedance restricts the transient current."

I guess they forgot to put caps in there power supplies. Why would you buy anything from people who know nothing about electronics, or lie about it.

You need to terminate power cables to get transient-perfect operation

Yes, that's pretty egregious. Funny in a sad way.

 

[ahofer]

Chris is engaging with ASR, Paul is not. And while they have a mutual interest, I welcome Chris here. We should all be open to new evidence.

Besides, all their marketing language and products we can get our hands on are hashed over here, and nearly everyone has had an opportunity to decide where they stand on PS Audio's history. I don't see much harm in engaging the arguments and the products instead of the company as this new designer rolls his effort out.

 

[Cbdb2]

You can't separate the product from the company. The company (Paul) has the first and last word. And I'm pretty sure not everyone has decided where they stand, theres new people reading these posts every day. I don't know Chris but if he's working with Paul can his ethic be that different? If it is, he won't last long (or hell go crazy).