PS Audio FR30 speakers

[617]

We're shipping out a lot of speakers around the end of the month and so you should start seeing more feedback from people. Until know, only a handful of pilot production units are out in the wild.

One pair of those early sets of speakers is in the hands of our distributors in australia and they showed them at a recent trade show (different than the one from the youtube review that you linked). It sounds like though, even though the room was quite small, they were more successful in setting them up this time and getting a great sound.

Unfortunately, this forum requires you to register to read more than a page or two, but it's pretty fast and easy. It's been fun to rear the comments from people.
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/544706-2022-hi-fi-av-show-melbourne-impressions/

Congrats on shipping your speakers, got to be a good feeling.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

I'm sorry sir, but I have to respond -

The Yamaha NS10 Story

Love or hate the Yamaha NS10, this unassuming little speaker has found a place in the studios of many of the world's top producers. We trace its history, and investigate why a monitor whose sound has been described as "horrible" became an industry standard.

www.soundonsound.com

Bold North Audio MS10-W Introduces Direct Replacement Mid-Woofer for Yamaha NS10 Studio Monitors

MISCO recently unveiled a brand new version of a legendary driver. The new MS10-W, will be marketed under the new MISCO brand, Bold North Audio, and it is effectively a direct replacement for the famous white driver on Yamaha’s NS10 studio monitors! The MS10-W actually includes a lightweight...

audioxpress.com

As you were...

In my defense the last time I heard any of those monitors in person was at a second-hand audio dealer years and years ago. Back then pretty much anything would have sounded good to me for what its worth. If I recall they usually had them up against a wall so that probably helped out tremendously.

And the rose-colored glasses, of course. Always had fond memories of going there with my late father. That comes into effect when getting some of these speakers years later that I always wanted when younger. Not unsurprisingly, they sound abysmal now without any sort of EQ.

Edit: My memory is not as bad as I thought from a few sound demos online, taken for what they are worth. They are not up to hi-fi standards, and I would find them to be unacceptable, but still they sounded decent at the time, and I would give them a low, but passing grade today. They are nowhere near what modern monitors can provide, though, and due to the provenance of them, its unlikely I will run across a good working pair to tinker with.

 

[DSJR]

You can't rely on online recordings like this, as the mic picks up sound differently to our ears (or something like that). Sure the NS10 isn't neutral,. obviously so compared to a modern monitor and I suspect it's as hard as nails in a free-space situation (why recording/mixing engineers used it as it would murder a less successful mix). On a crowded bookshelf things can be a little different and it could 'project' the mids very nicely used that way..

Anyway, NS10's are an appreciating audio antique now. My local record shop (yes, you heard that right) had a pair stuck way up high (ten feet up i estimate) and the 'sound' is ok as much as a cheap turntable (technics look-alike) can make it - I went in looking for a particular CD they had in stock in a central island surrounded by new and used vinyl, but it had sold - a few gents looking at LP's and nobody of course, looking at the CD display. I beat a hasty retreat!

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

You can't rely on online recordings like this, as the mic picks up sound differently to our ears (or something like that). Sure the NS10 isn't neutral,. obviously so compared to a modern monitor and I suspect it's as hard as nails in a free-space situation (why recording/mixing engineers used it as it would murder a less successful mix). On a crowded bookshelf things can be a little different and it could 'project' the mids very nicely used that way..

Anyway, NS10's are an appreciating audio antique now. My local record shop (yes, you heard that right) had a pair stuck way up high (ten feet up i estimate) and the 'sound' is ok as much as a cheap turntable (technics look-alike) can make it - I went in looking for a particular CD they had in stock in a central island surrounded by new and used vinyl, but it had sold - a few gents looking at LP's and nobody of course, looking at the CD display. I beat a hasty retreat!

As stated in my original post taking it for what it was worth. We do have the Neumann there as a reference, and it does sound substantially better by comparison. But as you said the mics can be substantially different when it comes to speakers for obvious reasons. Still it had the same general impression of being a bit thin and honky and/or sharp like an old set of headphones.

And these were on a display in a fairly absorptive store with carpeted floors and tiled walls if I remember. I recall hearing about the tissue/double-ply thing over the tweeter. Evidently it can clean up more things than just your natural fault line But at any rate it probably helped “EQ” them quite a bit compared to what one would hear with them out in the open on a console or stands.

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

Ah Chris!

When you give answers like this, my hope comes back that you can influence Paul to do things the modern and correct way. You will never get a Dynaudio Jupiter set up, or it appears a Klippel NFS, but it is only through measurements, testing, checking, validating and then retesting, that you make things better.

Many years ago, the company I was working needed to make a protein in "giant sizes" in order to be able to understand the behavior (receptor bindings, etc.). They couldn't make it on earth as gravity affected the development of the crystals. They made a deal with NASA to grow the crystals in space. Unfortunately, the experiment was done in the shuttle that was destroyed coming back to earth. A few months after the accident, they found the experiment set up in a marsh in Texas. Not only it had survived reentry and the crash, the crystals survived too and were useful for characterization. An absolute impossible miracle! This is a digression, but it shows that you have to really try and push the envelope. People think that their ears remain perfect forever but don't understand that most use eyeglasses to read these messages... Not you yet, I suppose.

That's a fascinating story. Thanks for sharing.

 

[CtheArgie]

@Chris Brunhaver , incidentally, I found out about it as the scientist in charge of the project and I used to run at lunchtime in the company and changed clothes next to each other. Even though I was the global responsible on the business side of that protein, I wasn't aware until he told me.

I used to joke that you learnt a lot by talking to the "scientists" when they were in their underwear...

 

[Pearljam5000]

They're also releasing the FR20
Basically the same speaker but smaller, with 2 instead of 4 woofers

 

[Chris Brunhaver]

They're also releasing the FR20
Basically the same speaker but smaller, with 2 instead of 4 woofers

Yes, I tweaked the woofers a bit to get about 2.5 dB more sensitivity out of them (lower mass cone and aluminum coil, softer spider) so that that models will have similar sensitivity and the same bass extension, with the different woofer configuration. Of course, maximum output is 6 dB lower in the deep bass but output is still very good for most rooms (nearly 110 dB / 1 meter in half space from 25 hz and up at Xmax).

I ended up using a non-woven carbon fiber rohacell foam sandwich cone (PMI foam with carbon skins on either side). It's looking like the cost will be about 30% less.

I'm working on some smaller and significantly less expensive models as well but those are further out because we're currently working on new transducers for them.

 

[CtheArgie]

At the cost of TWO sets of D&Ds.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

For what it's worth, the HiFi News review of the FR-30 is live now on the interwebs.

 

[jtwrace]

There's also this one.

 

[Purité Audio]

For what it's worth, the HiFi News review of the FR-30 is live now on the interwebs.

Keith

 

[amirm]

Looks like three resonances with one the largest around 7 kHz. Pulling that down should help with clarity and brightness.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Looks like three resonances with one the largest around 7 kHz. Pulling that down should help with clarity and brightness.

One should never listen to the Concerto for Solo 18 kHz Flute on that speaker.

 

[anmpr1]

For what it's worth, the HiFi News review of the FR-30 is live now on the interwebs.

...the aspen FR30 is every bit a sensational design and – to cut to the chase – nothing short of one of the high-end bargains of the moment... If you're in the market for speakers in this sector, listen to them – they're a bargain.

I'm always moderately fascinated at descriptions Hi-Fi Influencers come up with in order to justify whatever it is the consumer gets at MSRP. Attempting to parse word meanings often gets a reader more confused than when they started reading. Here, the presenter writes how the product is 'one of' a group of bargains (not sure how large the group is as he doesn't tell us). He twice states how it is a bargain, just to make sure we get his point. But then qualifies it all, letting readers know that the bargain is limited to 'the moment', whatever that might be. I guess tomorrow it might not be a bargain?

I think it is reasonable to ask the writer how it is a bargain? After all, it's a passive loudspeaker selling for twenty-eight thousand English pounds ('new car territory' as the writer writes it), so it's not like something you're going to find discounted in the scratch and dent bargain-bin at Crutchfield. The only explanation given is that a shopper can always spend a lot more for loudspeakers (the unstated implication being that a more expensive product having similar characteristics to the PS loudspeaker necessarily makes the PS loudspeaker good value at it's price point, by comparison. I'm not sure that 'good value at an already expensive price point' is a bargain, per se, but YMMV).

Paul brings it all back home when he states (in the manufacturer's blurb) that his goal was to "Get close to the magic I had experienced [when listening to Arnie's IRS Reference speakers in Harry Pearson's closet], but at prices more people could afford." How many more is it, Paul?

Actually, in the world of hi-fi, the cynic in me says that if an item actually does something that you can hear, it's ahead of the game, regardless of price. And nothing against the price of this PS loudspeaker; I'm sure it costs a lot to build something like this..., from a fit and finish standpoint it might not even be over-priced for what you get. What I'm asking, is that writers think about the words they are using, when coming up with advertisements reviews for this stuff. Given it's overuse, I suggest that all reviewers enact a unilateral ban on the word 'bargain'. At least for anything that costs over three figures, or possibly the low fours, tops.

 

[FrantzM]

Keith

Ok...

If this FR, likely heavily smoothed , were to come from a speaker reviewed here I am sure it would have gotten no panther ... or the equivalent of a crying panther ... Is it me, or is this as bad as it looks, yet , the reviewer could not stop waxing poetic and praises about this speaker... What am I missing? Is this the Frequency Response one should expect from a $28,000.oo/pair speaker? Seriously?
For comparison this is the FR of a $500.oo/pair speaker, I own, so allow me to be biased:

What gives?

Can anyone in his right mind believe that this FR30 thing... could hold a candle to a Neumann KH420 or Genelec 8361 or a Revel 328Be or 228Be or Salon or ... god forbid Kii 3 + BXT or Genelec 8351 + W371 A, combos?
I understand the designer posts here, and is a nice guy, but in my book that is not a nice frequency response. I would like to hear his thoughts about this result...

Peace.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Ok...

If this FR, likely heavily smoothed , were to come from a speaker reviewed here I am sure it would have gotten no panther ... or the equivalent of a crying panther ... Is it me, or is this as bad as it looks, yet , the reviewer could not stop waxing poetic and praises about this speaker... What am I missing? Is this the Frequency Response one should expect from a $28,000.oo/pair speaker? Seriously?
For comparison this is the FR of a $500.oo/pair speaker, I own, so allow me to be biased:

What gives?

Can anyone in his right mind believe that this FR30 thing... could hold a candle to a Neumann KH420 or Genelec 8361 or a Revel 328Be or 228Be or Salon or ... god forbid Kii 3 + BXT or Genelec 8351 + W371 A, combos?
I understand the designer posts here, and is a nice guy, but in my book that is not a nice frequency response. I would like to hear his thoughts about this result...

Peace.

The off axis response would have to be uneven in a rather precise manner to exactly compensate for the errors in the forward response. I don't think that is going to happen, and the overall listening position response is going to be not as flat as some other speakers which place more emphasis on flatness. I could of course be wrong, so I would like to see a 1/6th octave listening position response in Stereophile like they usually do. It still may be a very good sounding speaker in spite of uneven frequency response - who knows at this point, but I'd like to see more data.

Of course in the grand scheme of things, I am an insignificant peon and not the target customer for PS Audio (although I am firmly the target demographic). So consider the source.

 

[FrantzM]

The off axis response would have to be uneven in a rather precise manner to exactly compensate for the errors in the forward response. I don't think that is going to happen, and the overall listening position response is going to be not as flat as some other speakers which place more emphasis on flatness. I could of course be wrong, so I would like to see a 1/6th octave listening position response in Stereophile like they usually do. It still may be a very good sounding speaker in spite of uneven frequency response - who knows at this point, but I'd like to see more data.

Of course in the grand scheme of things, I am an insignificant peon and not the target customer for PS Audio (although I am firmly the target demographic). So consider the source.

One can always dream ... I have my serious doubts, directivity would be uniform in that thing. TBH, I never expected much from this speaker .. call it bias, prejudice... Science and PS Audio don't go hand to hand.

Peace

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Keith

Very interesting when do you see 2 measurements very different, if we look at the rest of measurements from hifinews the speakers appears to be very well design

Here is my point, this youtuber measures his own FR30 and then got a very nice flat response, VEERY NICE FR IN-ROOM.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Very interesting when do you see 2 measurements very different, if we look at the rest of measurements from hifinews the speakers appears to be very well design

Here is my point, this youtuber measures his own FR30 and then got a very nice flat response, VEERY NICE FR IN-ROOM.
View attachment 218133

I guess we'll see. His accent made it almost impossible for me to understand what he was saying, but from what I could make out, he was spouting all the usual audiophile drivel suspects. Recording the sound from a speaker in-room is a pretty pointless exercise since the sound of the speaker could have just as well been some 70s Cerwin Vega screamer, and the music choice didn't help. Also, who did the response plot, and where was the microphone?