Uh huh.
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PS audio explain how spike at bottom of the speaker works
- Thread starter Peter Chuang
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If done right, yes. I have spikes in the front and nothing in the back, that means my speakers point up.
Such is life if your speaker stands are a bit small.
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theREALdotnet
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If your stand is too small you just need to angle it differently.
That's what he said.
Also well set up for "That's what she said"That's what he said.
I really wish I had saved the article I had several years ago.
The author put forth the proposition of using a 2-part system of a damping platform coupled to the floor with isolation in betweenplatform and the item to be de-coupled. He applied this to Electronics/Amps and Speakers alike.
I concur that Spikes couple. Perhaps because there is so little surface area in mutual contact, an argument can be made that a reduction in the transference of mechanical energy is achieved... however, Spikes will not eliminate said transference.
As I recall the author's argument, this is where the damping platform comes into play. Granite or Maple are both commonly looked at as good mediums for damping mechanical energy. By giving this platform a solid foundation by coupling it to the floor, then applying appropriate isolatoion between the Speaker or Electronics, you can effectively eliminate most sources of vibrational interference, including the interaction of a powerful wavefront from acting on the item being isolated.
Again... I lack the source of this argument. I am not purporting this to be fact. This is only a share.
Cheers.
The author put forth the proposition of using a 2-part system of a damping platform coupled to the floor with isolation in betweenplatform and the item to be de-coupled. He applied this to Electronics/Amps and Speakers alike.
I concur that Spikes couple. Perhaps because there is so little surface area in mutual contact, an argument can be made that a reduction in the transference of mechanical energy is achieved... however, Spikes will not eliminate said transference.
As I recall the author's argument, this is where the damping platform comes into play. Granite or Maple are both commonly looked at as good mediums for damping mechanical energy. By giving this platform a solid foundation by coupling it to the floor, then applying appropriate isolatoion between the Speaker or Electronics, you can effectively eliminate most sources of vibrational interference, including the interaction of a powerful wavefront from acting on the item being isolated.
Again... I lack the source of this argument. I am not purporting this to be fact. This is only a share.
Cheers.
I like my things to shake, Rock and Roll!
Spikes are generally snake oil. I doubt if anyone could ever tell the difference in a blind test on a normal carpeted surface. Just more Snake Oil!
Now if you live somewhere with a suspended floor (a tree house?) and have massive bass output, your existing bass output would most likely rattle so much stuff that spikes are the least of your worries. Snake oil products live on!
Now if you live somewhere with a suspended floor (a tree house?) and have massive bass output, your existing bass output would most likely rattle so much stuff that spikes are the least of your worries. Snake oil products live on!
I will say that spikes do transmit low frequency energy. At one time I lived in a basement apartment above a doctor's office who had a large aquarium in the waiting room with said aquarium on a wrought iron stand. I could easily hear the rumble of the filter.
Jeez! That filter must have been huge or working hard. If nothing else maybe it was built Ford tough or like a Chevy Rock!
They do connect your speakers/stands firmly with the floor, no carpet wobbling.
You will appreciate that if you have to squeeze your butt between the speaker and the plant to reach for a book.
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With my enormous butt, I would end up knocking the stands over. I would be a disaster in tight areas!
Newman
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Which, I assure you, is entirely a bad idea that will only sound worse (if anything) than not doing it.
I use DIY stands of my own conception (wrt engineering principles) and although they look similar to yours, and also on carpet, are the complete opposite of yours when it comes to handling vibration.
Everything that looks like steel is actually thin MDF sheet or thin poly pipe (the cheap sort used for gutter drainage in the yard) filled with sand. What looks like welds is actually soft water-based ‘liquid nails’ adhesive that never goes hard. The speaker rests on blu-tac on the top plate. Every joint (speaker=>top plate=>column=>base plate=>carpet) is as lossy as possible. We don’t want to transmit audio vibration, we want to dampen and lose it.
This whole ‘coupling’ idea is based on a false premise or two: that the speaker needs to be locked motionless in space, and that any vibrational motion of the speaker needs to be ‘carried away’ to the floor. The first achieves nothing, and attempting to do the second only sets other things vibrating, like a stand.
Even a pro event speaker, with massive amounts of energy compared to our toys, does not rely on being locked in space:-
Reaching your pot plants safely is a different problem!
I don’t know much about speaker spikes as I have never used them, but when I used svs isolation feet on my subwoofer (raised about 1 1/2 inch from the carpet) it made a big difference in sound. The bass was more, cleaner, with more room gain. Can someone explain why that could be? I have tried the test with other people and they all can detect a difference in bass with 3 different svs models(PB-16, SB13, SB3000). Why is this the case? My room is 13 x 15 feet with carpet.
First off it is all listening based opinion. It may be that it is sounding better but without any measurements or blind listening you will never know. The thing about audio is it is VERY hard to just listen and really tell if the sub really does sound better on the new feet. The brain is constantly messing with your perception of the sound. So, bottom line is that if you think it sounds better, then to you it does! Reality doesn't mater in such a small difference of sound. Just go with what you like. For much more expensive and bigger sound changes then you need to start using science to take your brains influence out of the picture. Also, welcome to ASR!
F
freemansteve
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Yes, my little subs have rubber cover for the spikes, to suit my nice hard oak floor.
Spikes on that floor would lead to divorce.
F
freemansteve
Guest
A bit less of the sound energizing the carpet?
I've speculated about the effect of mechanical vibration on suspended wood flooring quite a bit. I don't know anything about your home construction, but my flooring is overly spongy: I jokingly refer to it as trampoline-like. (Though I have a high mass, I taught myself from a young age to step lightly, move quietly. When I walk through my room, everything shakes. I don't know if my landlord spec'd wide joists or used thinner floor boards, but the ability of my floor to transmit energy is quite high.)
Because of this, I was led to research isolation. It started innocently enough, but it's a complicated subject, and more knowledgeable people than I have made convincing counter-arguments to my hypothesis. Yet when I try to work through why they may be right, I keep coming up against my own experience.
I stated before, in this thread, that I make no claims about Sound Quality. Rather it is my @$$ in a chair that I am using to identify the level of vibration being transmitted, that and what I experience walking through the house when I am not seated in my room (doors two rooms down vibrating, glass doors on gas stove rattling in a separate area of the house, etc).
Short story long...
In my experience it is a matter of damping the mechanical vibrations being conducted through to the structure of the house that has an impact on perceived Bass SQ. In a manner of speaking, it is distortion that is not quantified in the build of the Subwoofer. Many will say that modern cabinets on good Subs are largely inert.
OK... I would agree... but for me, the Outlaw X-13s (Claridy Audio designed and manufactured) still created an amount of mechanical energy that was transmitted through the stock feet of the Sub. I have carpeted floors, the carpet and padding do not privide enough damping to stop a 100# sub from conducting energy through 4 small rubberized cone feet.
Applying Soundpath Feet and still leaving the Subs on the carpet allowed for mechanical energy to still be conducted through to the structure.
In my case.
It took a combination of a damping platform being coupled directly to the flooring using Spikes, along with the isolation feet to remove a majority of the vibrations. Now, it is purely an impact of very-high-mechanical-energy and LF wavefronts working on the room that will break my system.
The conclusion is that the "tightening" of the Bass is a function of cleaning up mechanical distortions that are resonant in the structure.
My suspicion is that if my flooring was common (16" joists on center with appropriate floor boards) the Soundpath Feet would have sufficed at alleviating my rather extreme situation.
I am still left questioning why people on Concrete flooring have climed a benefit from any type of isolation. That said, I think the higher usage of concrete mix to lower ratio of aggregate material increases the ability of concrete to receive and conduct (perhaps even amplify) mechanical energy...
My damping pads are concrete, from rejected countertops, and they are high in aggregate material. The full piece countertop was completely inert. However, once cut to size, the smaller pieces did demonstrate the slightest ability to ring... just a hint.
This was only noticeable to me as I had also checked a local quarry dealer and experienced the difference between some high quality granit and other "mineral substrate." The granite was completely inert... though I do not recall the other quarried material by name, I do remember well the fact it rang like a bell, almost; which is to say that rapping on it with my knuckles created a sustained vibration in the product.
Long story longer...
Anybody that has focused any time at all on positional EQ (finding proper placements for Speaker or Sub where each item performs at its acoustical best in-room will know that an inch can make a significant difference in performance. This applies to SBIR, breaking up a reflected wave cancellation, etc. While I do not discount completely that raising a Sub or Speaker by 1-1.5" won't affect the perceived SQ, it would stand to reason that any so inclined manufacturer would glom to this and use it as a marketing ploy.
We have not seen this.
While raising the Sub, in our cases, may have some impact, i do not think it is the main reason for the perceived effect we have on SQ.
Thus, I am still leaning toward a simple (Occam's Razor... anybody wanna shave?) explanation that it is a damping of mechanical energy conductance at play, and that the success of which is subject to the specific architecture of the structure in question when being challenged by a high energy, low frequency source.
(FWIW, I experimented with my Subs as follows:
Stock feet on carpeted floor
Stock feet on concrete pad directly on carpeted floor
Soundpath Feet on carpeted floor
Soundpath Feet on concrete pad directly on carpeted floor
Soundpath Feet on concrete pad coupled to structure using Outriggers with Spikes.
The only thing I did not test was stock feet on pad with spikes.
From a subjective standpoint, I have claimed previously an approximate reduction of mechanical vibration of approximately 85%, in my specific use case.
My only instrument of testing was, as stated above, my @$$ in a chair. No battery of lasers, accelerometers or other device of scientific measure was employed.
Of note: this does not preclude or prevent the actual wavefront from wreaking havoc as it will. I have, of note, felt the Sub cabinet vibrating at times, without that conducting through to the structure.
)
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This... and a topic for a different forum, most likely!Reaching your pot plants safely is a different problem!
An argument could be made, however, that the eliminations of random vibrations at a large venue is not the goal of pro sound reinforcement.
Possibly, the structures involved in safely hanging such gear as you show in that photo may well deal with a majority of stresses through the cabling, tubular frame structure and foundation to warrant such concerns moot?
Regardless, most gear in this instance is not dealing with infrasonic frequencies in small rooms. How many pro Subs have you seen that dig as deep as some of us pursue for HT, Organ and Electronic music (ie 10-16Hz)?
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