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PS Audio DirectStream DAC mk2 hilarious ad copy

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Billy Budapest

Billy Budapest

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I really didn't respond to this to start a flame war (OK maybe a little) and if horsepower was my only criteria for buying a car yes I would be questioning my sensibilities but if that were the only criteria everyone would simply buy a vehicle based on horsepower.

Has anyone who responded on this thread actually heard / tested the MK II or is the thread really about that? Is this a thread about ad copy? Advertising word choice is exactly what it is. Word choice, trying to make your product stand out among all the rest. Making fun of an advertisement is great fun and probably possible with any manufacture that is trying to promote their product but this thread stopped being about that and took a nasty turn dumping on a product without any evidence. Where is the science in that?


That is kind of the rub isn't it? Is a piece of music performed on a Steinway grand piano more correct than the same piece of music with the same performer at the same venue performed on a Yamaha grand piano ... or are they the same? If I prefer one over the other does that make me more or less correct about my choice? I admit I have a sound preference. I listen for certain elements and gravitate toward gear that accentuates those elements. Sometimes I luck out and can be satisfied spending less sometimes to get my preference I have to spend more and at that point I make a value judgement. I was asked what are the aspects of a piece of gear I felt would make it worth the money to me. I responded with the best of my knowledge with the limited resources I posses . YMMV
See my post above.
 

ahofer

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The point is that the ad copy is completely hilarious.
The post is pretty hilarious as well. "Converts my digital files into analogue"! Well I should hope so.
 

DanaGer

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Has anyone who responded on this thread actually heard / tested the MK II
So I guess the answer is no as you quoted the results for the "Last PS Audio "PerfectWave" DAC I tested could not even reproduce the dynamic range of the CD:"

What you saying? That there is no figure of merit of any sort for an audio equipment that can be used to at least reduce the number of gears of interest before buying? Only an in-person audition will do? Why do you believe this? You don't think this is a all too convenient to dismiss every type of objective data and make that the only criteria? After all, they don't do well in objective department so let's hide behind this excuse.

While you only want listening test data gathered by you, the rest of us live a much more comfortable audiophile life, relying on measurements that tell us if something is well engineered, or we are being sold a marketing story.

I don't think I said that at all. I can't find any statement in which I dismissed any type of objective data regarding the PerfectWave MK II as their isn't any, is there? There's brand bashing and speculation intermixed with some pretty funny comments about the ad but I'm unable to find any hard evidence regarding this product's performance. I realize that the intent of the thread wasn't about performance but it seemed to me to that there sure were a lot of posts about it with no objective data.

As I only purchase equipment to reside on my stereo rack, the in-person audition is the ultimate test and my hearing the measurements that matters the most, I'm not sure what's wrong with that? I do own and enjoy a piece of equipment that you have found inferior thru testing so I guess the inference is you could assume that I've completely disregarded every type of objective data but I don't see it that way. To me specification testing is a weighted element upon which I make a decision. I don't want to assume regarding your criteria but from my perspective you choose to give testing a lot more weight than me and you prefer products that test well using your criteria and to me there's nothing wrong with that. My only question would be would you have chosen that same piece of equipment if you hadn't tested it?

I'm pretty honored to have the "Chief Fun Officer" respond to one of my posts (actually two so I'm doubley honored). Fun is the only reason I participate in this hobby. That and hearing the thoughts and beliefs of others with the same interests adds to "Fun". I don't have to completely agree to learn something so respectively Thank You All and HAPPY HOIDAYS!
 

solderdude

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I'm unable to find any hard evidence regarding this product's performance.

There is the data sheet which shows poorer performance on paper.
THD+N @ 1KHz (full scale) <0.1%
I am sure this is all below audible thresholds with most music in practice so it will sound fine.
Just like any other much cheaper DAC will as well. The distortion numbers themselves aren't anywhere near SOTA but we know nothing about linearity, filters, aliasing, harmonic dist profile etc.
Safe to say not many people here will buy it and they don't have to listen to it to be able to criticize the brand and its advertising talk.

Lets just say that BS audio, Ted Smith and Paul McClown don't have a good reputation here but am sure elsewhere there is much adoration for the brand and those that come with it.
 
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ahofer

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Thank You All and HAPPY HOIDAYS!
I hope you are with loved ones enjoying a relaxing holiday.

I'm with my wife and two of my sons, and Elgar's Enigma Variations playing here on my superbly-measuring DAC and less-superbly measuring speakers. Brother and family on the way over.

With DACs it isn't so much what you prefer, but whether you can tell the difference. I did provide some blind tests above, but I notice they've been ignored.
 

Ricardus

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This is why the snake-oil salesman who owns that company gets under my skin. He CLEARLY understands the psychology and bias here, and he is using it to his advantage. He's telling them what they're going to hear (in complete BS lying language), so when they buy one, they will hear exactly that. And look at the reviews... they're hearing exactly what he told them they would hear.

You know that "grandpa laugh" he does at the beginning of his videos, which I suspect he does to seem relatable? Well that's him actually laughing at his customers who believe his BS and keep giving him money.
 
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Billy Budapest

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There's brand bashing and speculation intermixed with some pretty funny comments about the ad but I'm unable to find any hard evidence regarding this product's performance. I realize that the intent of the thread wasn't about performance but it seemed to me to that there sure were a lot of posts about it with no objective data.

Well, it seems you DO get the point of what my intent of the thread was/is, so any remarks about the product’s performance or lack thereof are pretty much irrelevant. The ad copy was/is ridiculous—especially the part about uncovering hidden data.

That and hearing the thoughts and beliefs of others with the same interests adds to "Fun". I don't have to completely agree to learn something so respectively Thank You All and HAPPY HOIDAYS!

And same to you, Sir!
 

Jmart

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lol. this thread is entertaining to say the least.

I have a full set of PS audio gear and expensive cables. People come over and are blown away at the sound. Seems like they are doing something right.

Ive also tried out multiple other companies and different price points and have been quite impressed with the current setup.

I wonder what everyone here owns. All companies will advertise to bring interest. There is also no doubt that some of the audio stuff can be very controversial at best. But if someone has bought things to test, and kept the best of what they have heard, then how is there a debate? I think literally anyone on here regardless of budget could order the most expensive gear from PS Audio, try it out for 30 days, and send it right back for free. I've actually done that very thing so that I could verify that I wanted it and then purchased a used one from someone nearby. Seems like a pretty honest way of going about things. "You don't believe our stuff beats the similarly priced competition? Order it, try it in your home, and return it for free if you don't like it. Oh, and if you do want it, just send us your old gear for full retail as credit towards this purchase and future ones."

Advertisements are just words to bring interest, but putting the product on the line with that kind of customer service speaks volumes to me. I will probably try the MKII in my home for 30 days risk free, if its not worth 8K, then its going right back. I could also test out another high quality DAC that someone else suggests on here (as long as there is a return policy) and see who is the crazy one hahaha
 

ahofer

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I have a full set of PS audio gear and expensive cables. People come over and are blown away at the sound. Seems like they are doing something right.

No doubt. Here are some suggestions as to what they are doing ‘right’.

Congrats on your expensive gear. The thing is, it is overwhelmingly likely you’d get the same or higher fidelity signal, and more power, at the speaker terminals for far less money. And that’s why PS Audio gets so much crap, and deserves it.

If you disagree, prove us wrong.

As for our systems, Amir’s is well-documented. There are threads. I have one system (NYC) with Raspberry Pi (ROPIEEXL)->RME ADI-2->March Audio (Hypex build)->Harbeth SHL5+, with Blue Jeans Cables and interconnects. The other (Litchfield County, CT) is Cambridge Audio->Bryston 3B->Revel 228be with generic interconnects and some old audiophile cable or other I bought when I was younger and stupider (Cardas, I think). The third, a desktop system, is Pi->Pro-Ject->Genelec. One of my guest rooms has KEF LS50Ws and a sub. All fed by Roon servers. The only parts worth arguing about are the speakers, although the RME’s dynamic loudness is pretty great in my NYC apartment.

I have big beasty VTL Tube and Adcom power amps I can switch in. But mostly they run super hot and sound the same.
 
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Billy Budapest

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lol. this thread is entertaining to say the least.

I have a full set of PS audio gear and expensive cables. People come over and are blown away at the sound. Seems like they are doing something right.

Ive also tried out multiple other companies and different price points and have been quite impressed with the current setup.

I wonder what everyone here owns. All companies will advertise to bring interest. There is also no doubt that some of the audio stuff can be very controversial at best. But if someone has bought things to test, and kept the best of what they have heard, then how is there a debate? I think literally anyone on here regardless of budget could order the most expensive gear from PS Audio, try it out for 30 days, and send it right back for free. I've actually done that very thing so that I could verify that I wanted it and then purchased a used one from someone nearby. Seems like a pretty honest way of going about things. "You don't believe our stuff beats the similarly priced competition? Order it, try it in your home, and return it for free if you don't like it. Oh, and if you do want it, just send us your old gear for full retail as credit towards this purchase and future ones."

Advertisements are just words to bring interest, but putting the product on the line with that kind of customer service speaks volumes to me. I will probably try the MKII in my home for 30 days risk free, if its not worth 8K, then its going right back. I could also test out another high quality DAC that someone else suggests on here (as long as there is a return policy) and see who is the crazy one hahaha
That’s all off topic to this thread. We are here to discuss PS Audio’s ridiculously hilarious ad copy, not what gear we own or how much we spent on it.
 

Jmart

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No doubt. Here are some suggestions.

Congrats on your expensive gear. The thing is, it is overwhelmingly likely you’d get the same or higher fidelity signal, and more power, at the speaker terminals for far less money. And that’s why PS Audio gets so much crap, and deserves it.

If you disagree, prove us wrong.

As for our systems, Amir’s is well-documented. There are threads. I have one system (NYC) with Raspberry Pi (ROPIEEXL)->RME ADI-2->March Audio (Hypex build)->Harbeth SHL5+, with Blue Jeans Cables and interconnects. The other (Litchfield County, CT) is Cambridge Audio->Bryston 3B->Revel 228be with generic interconnects and some old audiophile cable or other I bought when I was younger and stupider (Cardas, I think). All fed by Roon servers. The only parts worth arguing about are the speakers, although the RME’s dynamic loudness is pretty great in my NYC apartment.

Appreciate the thread link. Seems like my argument isn't quite what you posted there, but perhaps the conversation develops later. My argument is that people come to my house and are blown away by my system. Is it one thing in particular? Is it my cables or my gear etc? I do'nt know. I bought stuff, listened, and kept what I thought was best. I returned stuff when it didn't give me any benefits (some of it is likely very hotly debated here).

Ive been to this site a few times and have always just come across people making others look 'stupid' because people on here disagree. How does this community even survive? Just feed off of each others cynicism?

I do ask mostly out of genuine curiosity. I recognize that many things are preference, many things are not backed by any reliable science, and many things are probably just plain Voodoo. But I'm an audiophile at heart and I want what sounds good.

I spend good money and my electric guitar board and hear changes all the time. Ive played with car audio, tubes, etc. And I've always just chosen when I enjoyed more. The prices that high end audio charges is literally the same across the board (live music, car audio, home audio, etc).
 

Jmart

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That’s all off topic to this thread. We are here to discuss PS Audio’s ridiculously hilarious ad copy, not what gear we own or how much we spent on it.
haha, oh please continue to whine without me. My interest in talking with the majority of people on here is already been exhausted :rolleyes:
 
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Billy Budapest

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haha, oh please continue to whine without me. My interest in talking with the majority of people on here is already been exhausted :rolleyes:
I don’t understand why you posted what you did here, that’s all. This isn’t a thread to talk about your gear, or my gear, or anybody else’s gear. There are plenty of threads like that in this forum or on the PS Audio forum. Instead, this is a thread to talk about . . . let’s call a spade a spade . . . effing stoooopid advertising by PS Audio.

I don’t have anything against PS Audio particularly (I’ve owned plenty of their power products which have saved my gear from power surges and brownouts) or Paul McGowan, as long as you realize the guy’s genius is in marketing. I do, however, have something against badly written, nonsensical ad copy, and feel badly for people duped by it.
 
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ahofer

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My argument is that people come to my house and are blown away by my system. Is it one thing in particular? Is it my cables or my gear etc?
a) most people haven't heard a decent system, properly set up (i'm assuming you did set it up, and this is especially true of in-room EQ adjusted equipment) b) most people want to say something nice and ego-stroking while observing you've mucked up a perfectly good room with ugly equipment.

I don't think "blowing people away" is much of a standard, whether your system is great or not. I've seen people be "blown away" by Radio Shack bling boxes. Whatever your system's quality, that's neither a measure of said quality, nor does it in any way reveal something about measurements and differences between cables, amps, etc.

Seems like my argument isn't quite what you posted there

You sure about that?

Anyway, welcome to a place where we discuss this stuff skeptically and insist on evidence-

Welcome to ASR! You've made an unsupported assertion or a scientifically implausible claim that will cause most people in this science-oriented forum to react with skepticism (or scepticism if they are in the U.K.). Please don't take the reactions as overtly hostile - most of us are just frustrated with the many newcomers who have clearly come here just to "troll". Please do engage with the membership to find an objective, controlled method to support or discard your hypothesis. Our membership includes recovering subjectivists, many engineers/scientists, and several famous figures in the world of audio engineering research. Generally, they can cite scientific, controlled research to support their views. Most believe in the fallibility of human sighted judgement, and think blind testing and measurements are critical ingredients for assessing equipment contributions to sound quality. We'd love to have you, but if all you want is a) to fight or b) to have others cheerlead for your subjective views or anecdotal evidence, I'd suggest you will be happier elsewhere.
 
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Jmart

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a) most people haven't heard a decent system, properly set up (i'm assuming you have) b) most people want to say something nice while observing you've mucked up a perfectly good room with ugly equipment.

I don't think "blowing people away" is much of a standard, whether your system is great or not. I've seen people be "blown away" by Radio Shack bling boxes. Whatever your system's quality, that's neither a measure of said quality, nor does it in any way reveal something about measurements and differences between cables, amps, etc.

Anyway, welcome to a place where we discuss this stuff skeptically and insist on evidence-
I think the sentiment is the same amongst the two groups. Neither values the others opinion as much as they probably should.

What is the preference:
Having a system that sounds subjectively great to everyone that comes in contact with it (including myself)

VS

Having a system that measures great and may or may not sound subjectively as great.

I have the Yamaha AV processor and can AB test from my couch. Have never felt like it came close to the PS audio Dac and digital front end (with all kinds of controversial goodies). Not sure I would ever be okay with “doesn’t sound as good but it’s cheap and measures nice!”

Anyway, I digress. I’ve already been heckled because I was “off topic” perhaps I’ll start another thread with some other questions.
 

DonR

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I think the sentiment is the same amongst the two groups. Neither values the others opinion as much as they probably should.

What is the preference:
Having a system that sounds subjectively great to everyone that comes in contact with it (including myself)

VS

Having a system that measures great and may or may not sound subjectively as great.

I have the Yamaha AV processor and can AB test from my couch. Have never felt like it came close to the PS audio Dac and digital front end (with all kinds of controversial goodies). Not sure I would ever be okay with “doesn’t sound as good but it’s cheap and measures nice!”

Anyway, I digress. I’ve already been heckled because I was “off topic” perhaps I’ll start another thread with some other questions.
AVR DACs rarely measure well. I do wonder why that is since there are excellent standalone DACs that measure far better for very little money. I think most AVR manufacturers think "good enough". The amps in most AVRs just make things worse.

I would expect this PS Audio DAC to measure quite well.
 

Jmart

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AVR DACs rarely measure well. I do wonder why that is since there are excellent standalone DACs that measure far better for very little money. I think most AVR manufacturers think "good enough". The amps in most AVRs just make things worse.
Good to know. I am ignorant to anything past manufacture posted measurements.

However this isn’t an AVR. This is Yamahas highest end Processor (CX A5200). No amps inside at all. I would think that counts for something. *shrug*
 

DonR

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Good to know. I am ignorant to anything past manufacture posted measurements.

However this isn’t an AVR. This is Yamahas highest end Processor (CX A5200). No amps inside at all. I would think that counts for something. *shrug*
I see. I saw Yamaha and my mind went to AVR immediately. :facepalm:
 
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