Development thread: High-end dual opposing 10" subwoofer: Sigberg Audio 10D

[sigbergaudio]

Is a dual 12" version coming too?

Not currently planned, but who knows. We are however thinking about a 10" version with uh, even more drivers. We'll share more about that when get a bit further on the testing of this one.

EDIT: The reason we're focusing on the 10" for now is that it's better suited for relatively compact subwoofers, and still packs quite a punch.

 

[solderdude]

General observation (not aimed at this product nor measurements)

It's funny how we are satisfied with 20Hz 80dB and 1.4% where with headphone measurements 100dB SPL at 20Hz is frowned upon as not being sufficient and that then must be below 1% otherwise it is crap.
Even with the 'missing 6dB effect' in place 86dB dB SPL is considered not realistic.

 

[sigbergaudio]

General observation (not aimed at this product nor measurements)

It's funny how we are satisfied with 20Hz 80dB and 1.4% where with headphone measurements 100dB SPL at 20Hz is frowned upon as not being sufficient and that then must be below 1% otherwise it is crap.
Even with the 'missing 6dB effect' in place 86dB dB SPL is considered not realistic.

I know very little about headphone measurements so can't really comment whether it is comparable or not. Perhaps something changes when the transducer is so close to the ear? But yes, it sounds strange when comparing to what we accept from subwoofers. 1.4% is extremely low for subwoofer measurements, most would argue that even 10% or more is inaudible at 20hz. Which may be true since many people can hardly hear 20hz in the first place, let alone any distortion. What's problematic with the example I posted of the 12" subwoofer is that distortion is high also at way higher frequencies.

 

[Matias]

Do you have an estimate of the final price in usd of this 10D, worldwide shipping included?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Do you have an estimate of the final price in usd of this 10D, worldwide shipping included?

Subject to change / not finalized, but somewhere between 3,000-3,500USD including shipping probably with the current exchange rate. On top of that I assume you will be subject to import taxes and VAT in your country, if that applies.

 

[Deleted member 65]

So no, there is currently no app support. There's a couple of reasons for that. First and foremost we are a small manufacturer so doing our own development of something like that currently isn't feasible, and second I like the thought of a subwoofer or a speaker to be relatively future proof despite being active. So adding app support, direct streaming abilities for Spotify or whatever would require us to focus on a lot of other things than maximum sound quality.

Wise choice not to get stuck in SW updates. I’ve got an Elac SUB 2050, only way to setup/configure it is through a smartphone app. As of IOS 13 app ceased to work! Had to wait for something like 6 months until an update finally was released. Holding my breath everytime Apple releases a new version of IOS.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Outside measurements in Norway during winter is an interesting and pretty cold experience. My fingers could hardly move by the end. But no sacrifice is too big for the love of music, right?

Some preliminary measurements (subject to change)

So the frequency response will be tweaked in the coming weeks, but current groundplane measurement (outdoors) show [email protected] and [email protected], and as seen in previous measurements in-room response will of course be higher.

Preliminary CEA2010 measurements (red row, included our other two subs as well for reference). Also note that this is a dual driver sub, which makes accurate measurements a bit more difficult, but I'm reasonably sure this is accurate or on the conservative side:

EDIT: Turns out this red row was originally probably wrong. The right numbers should theoretically be around +6dB from the Inkognito 10, so I've replaced the 10D numbers with an estimate based on that.

 

[Matias]

Doesn't the cold temperature affect the driver measurements? Amir had an issue once and the manufacturer simulated and measured the speaker while warming up after being in the refrigerator, the bass response did change.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Doesn't the cold temperature affect the driver measurements? Amir had an issue once and the manufacturer simulated and measured the speaker while warming up after being in the refrigerator, the bass response did change.

It's around 0C outside. I read a thread, was it a guy from Harbeth perhaps? Who said measurements at 10C was completely useless when designing speakers for a 20C environment. I would kindly say that's an exaggeration. Yes the speed of sound changes with temperature, and yes in theory the driver properties could be affected. But rubber elasticity actually have pretty wide temperature ranges, and the driver is mostly pretty resistant materials (aluminimum cone and fibreglass dust cap). Finally this is preliminary measurements for me to see that I get an even response with the enclosure and that the frequency response is roughly as predicted (which it is). So this is perfectly useful for my purposes at this time, despite the temperature not being ideal.

EDIT: Found the thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rature-control-in-speaker-measurements.11522/

 

[sigbergaudio]

We've now spent some time doing subjective listening and adjustments, and I'm really loving how this 10D dual opposing sub is turning out. Without going too far into crazy-subjective-magazine-lingo, I think the sound of this subwoofer is exactly the opposite of what hifi purists who are sceptical about subwoofers would expect it to sound. Which is exactly the intention. The bass is dry, precise and well integrated. At the same time it's obvious that the "dryness" isn't due to lack of extension, as it leaves no doubt that it hits the deepest notes with confidence on the tracks where those are present.

Pre-production versions with production-grade cabinets of both black and white will hopefully be done some time before the end of March, so then you'll get real pictures of how it will look. Assuming the pre-production versions are okay, they will also be sent out for magazine review as well as testing and feedback rounds with potential customers.

Sales will also open when the pre-production models are verified, and if all works out as planned, it will start shipping before summer.


Current questions we're debating is among other tings on the design of the baffles and grilles. We're likely going with 32mm baffles (sandwiched 16mm MDF), both for rigidity and the ability to recess the woofers quite a bit into the side, as they will come with grilles. Maximum excursion is roughly 1" each way, so we need space to make sure it clears the grille. Also debating whether to have a full grille covering the entire sides of the subwoofer, or just over the actual driver. I think perhaps full grilles will look the best. DSP is also subject to additional tweaking, and will be for the coming weeks. Also additional testing in different setups and rooms.

 

[sigbergaudio]

For those interested in something like this, would you prefer for it to be as low as possible to take less "visual" space, or would you like the opposite, that it's taller, but have a smaller footprint on the floor? Or more or less cubic?

 

[JDragon]

For those interested in something like this, would you prefer for it to be as low as possible to take less "visual" space, or would you like the opposite, that it's taller, but have a smaller footprint on the floor? Or more or less cubic?

Curious - how would the low/tall form factors compare to the Inkognito?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Curious - how would the low/tall form factors compare to the Inkognito?

I'm not suggesting anything as extreme as that. but say you have a cube of 40x40x40cm (16x16x16 inches).

Should it stay like a cube, or would it be better to be slightly lower and instead be deeper, etc.

So it could be 44cm deep and 36cm high, or 36cm deep and 44cm high etc, depending on whether floor footprint or height/visual impact is most important.

Currently I'm leaning towards a slightly narrower front, and slightly lower profile, so the longest dimension is depth. But only talking a few cm off, so not too far away from a cube. This would reduce the visual impact of the subwoofer at least if it's positioned so that the front is the visual surface.

 

[AHo]

Should it stay like a cube, or would it be better to be slightly lower and instead be deeper, etc.

If it's slightly lower it is maybe easier to let it double as a side table. On another note, to have more freedom to place it in front of a closet that has to open occasionally, wheels could be quite handy. I personally would place a big plant on it. A perfect cube with wheels that have a bit of friction would work nicely for that purpose.

 

[sigbergaudio]

If it's slightly lower it is maybe easier to let it double as a side table. On another note, to have more freedom to place it in front of a closet that has to open occasionally, wheels could be quite handy. I personally would place a big plant on it. A perfect cube with wheels that have a bit of friction would work nicely for that purpose.

I doubt we will ship it with wheels, but it will have standard M8 mounts on the bottom, so you could replace the feet with wheels if you like.

 

[sigbergaudio]

New update on the grille, we're now reverting back to probably fitting the pre-production models with smaller grilles that just covers the woofers, and see how that looks. They will have fabric of the same color of the subwoofer, so hopefully will look discreet and neutral. The drivers will be recessed quite a bit into the cabinet, but the grilles will still need to extend a bit from the side of the cabinet due to the long excursion.

The current idea is to have a magnets in the grille that attaches to the bolts that secures the woofer. This way the cabinet will be clean without any grille mounting points if you decide to use it without grille.

 

[whazzup]

A 10 incher pushing out 16hz.... KEF is readying their unicore.... 2021 is shaping up to be an interesting year for small subs....

 

[sigbergaudio]

A 10 incher pushing out 16hz.... KEF is readying their unicore.... 2021 is shaping up to be an interesting year for small subs....

In case it's not clear, it's a dual 10", so two active 10" drivers (not a passive radiator or anything).

 

[whazzup]

In case it's not clear, it's a dual 10", so two active 10" drivers (not a passive radiator or anything).

Yes, but the important feature are its compact dimensions. 1812 cannons!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Dimensions are now finalized for the pre-production models (still subject to change for the final version):
390*420*430mm (width * height * depth)
Weight likely around 33-35kg.

Feet will be probably be 15mm high, soft dampening feet (same as our Inkognito only they are 30mm), so total height with feet 435mm.

The idea is now to offer a circular grille covering just the woofer, thinking white for the white subwoofer and black for the black subwoofer. I guess we could offer purchasing the alternative as an option (If you'd like a black grille on a white subwoofer).

Updated rough illustrations, also now showing the rounded edges (they will have the same rounded edges as our current Inkognito line). See the ones to the left roughly illustrating how the grille would look. The transparency just for effect, likely won't be see through.