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Protection against breaker causing loud noise in speakers?

Lord Victor

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Sorry if this has been asked before - couldn't find this specific issue.

A bit ago an old stovetop triggered the main breaker in the house, and it caused a loud horrendous noise from my speakers.
Now I'm wondering if there is any way to protect against this sort of thing - I'm unsure what exactly would have caused the sound from my hifi system in the first place, so not sure if a surge protection power strip, filter or anything of the sort would be any use.

Getting something that would protect against lightning strikes and the like would probably not be bad either...
 

Gringoaudio1

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Wow! I imagine a surge protector power strip would have prevented that. Hopefully someone else chimes in who actually knows!
 
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Lord Victor

Lord Victor

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Wow! I imagine a surge protector power strip would have prevented that. Hopefully someone else chimes in who actually knows!
Yea, that's what I'm considering, but I'm unsure if what went through was enough to trip one, or what even happened, and if it would trip fast enough to avoid it, as it was a short burst - sort of like if someone ripped out a live jack connection in the system.
Would have thought most of these components had inbuilt circuits that would stop this sort of thing - and don't want to blow 200€ on a glorified powerstrip unless it might stop this sort of thing in the future.
 

McFly

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With my limited knowledge in the field, I would speculate that the stove tripping the breaker caused the house voltage to temporarily (less than 500ms) skyrocket due to the current drop. This over voltage in the mains caused either the transformer in the amplifier to make the amplifier DC rails to go so high, or the transformed AC voltage breaks through the rectifiers onto the DC rails, that it then breaks through the main power transistors and go to the speakers, so you essentially get a massive DC or mains AC at the speakers. You're lucky you still have speakers.

And yes, a surge protector would prevent exactly this.
 

Bob from Florida

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Sorry if this has been asked before - couldn't find this specific issue.

A bit ago an old stovetop triggered the main breaker in the house, and it caused a loud horrendous noise from my speakers.
Now I'm wondering if there is any way to protect against this sort of thing - I'm unsure what exactly would have caused the sound from my hifi system in the first place, so not sure if a surge protection power strip, filter or anything of the sort would be any use.

Getting something that would protect against lightning strikes and the like would probably not be bad either...
If the main breaker tripped, power was interrupted to your stereo. Possibly your amp may not have disconnected the speakers via relays for example and a power off transient was generated somewhere in your system. A surge strip won't help with that circumstance.
 
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Lord Victor

Lord Victor

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With my limited knowledge in the field, I would speculate that the stove tripping the breaker caused the house voltage to temporarily (less than 500ms) skyrocket due to the current drop. This over voltage in the mains caused either the transformer in the amplifier to make the amplifier DC rails to go so high, or the transformed AC voltage breaks through the rectifiers onto the DC rails, that it then breaks through the main power transistors and go to the speakers, so you essentially get a massive DC or mains AC at the speakers. You're lucky you still have speakers.

And yes, a surge protector would prevent exactly this.
I see - much appreciated.
Do you have any idea which kind would be ideal? A lot of the hifi ones (like Dynavox) just have a 10a magnetic fuse, some like Supra, Black Lion Audio and Audioquest have a glowing LED signifying protection being active, and some just have a fuse. All of them have the usual high frequency filtering.

I don’t quite know the difference - some recommend the magnetic button that disengages and can then be pressed back in. Others rec fx Supra LoRad.
 
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Lord Victor

Lord Victor

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If the main breaker tripped, power was interrupted to your stereo. Possibly your amp may not have disconnected the speakers via relays for example and a power off transient was generated somewhere in your system. A surge strip won't help with that circumstance.
The house has several separate power sections, three I think, and the section with the stove is separate from the section with my system connected. I should probably have clarified that - so there are 3 breakers iirc.
This means everything in this part of the house stayed on, but apparently some “blip” reached it - wether it got turned off very briefly I don’t know, but usually turning it off and on doesn’t affect it. The amps are based on Pascal boards used in pro audio, so they’re quite robust. Streamer/dac/pre is Auralic Vega G1.
 

Bob from Florida

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The house has several separate power sections, three I think, and the section with the stove is separate from the section with my system connected. I should probably have clarified that - so there are 3 breakers iirc.
This means everything in this part of the house stayed on, but apparently some “blip” reached it - wether it got turned off very briefly I don’t know, but usually turning it off and on doesn’t affect it. The amps are based on Pascal boards used in pro audio, so they’re quite robust. Streamer/dac/pre is Auralic Vega G1.
Okay, so it was not the whole house breaker that tripped. Stove pulled heavy current until breaker tripped. Inductive spike from the mains transformer to your house passes through stereo to speakers. A good surge strip could help with this. Tripp Lite makes good surge strips.
 

Holmz

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Okay, so it was not the whole house breaker that tripped. Stove pulled heavy current until breaker tripped. Inductive spike from the mains transformer to your house passes through stereo to speakers. A good surge strip could help with this. Tripp Lite makes good surge strips.

Is there an inductive spike from the transformer?
It seems like it would rattle through many houses up and down the street.

The stove would be a purely resistive load, and I would expect (dunno) that the stove clicks on and off in response to holding a temperature, but I suppose it could slowly change load.
 

Doodski

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Is there an inductive spike from the transformer?
The idea certainly rings true in some abstract sense but I attempted rationalizing the circuitry and a outrush of current from a transformer would be required to create voltage swings that would cause the audio to distort. So when the circuit breaker tripped the voltage increased and the electromagnetic field around the transformer collapsed a bit.
t seems like it would rattle through many houses up and down the street.
Depends on the circuit layout(s).
The stove would be a purely resistive load, and I would expect (dunno) that the stove clicks on and off in response to holding a temperature, but I suppose it could slowly change load.
Any changes the rheostats or thermostats cause will be instantaneous and rapid.
 
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Lord Victor

Lord Victor

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Is there an inductive spike from the transformer?
It seems like it would rattle through many houses up and down the street.

The stove would be a purely resistive load, and I would expect (dunno) that the stove clicks on and off in response to holding a temperature, but I suppose it could slowly change load.
I don’t know about the first part - all electrical wiring is under ground. But only our house is afffected to my knowledge when it happens, if that’s what you mean?

It’s an old electric stove - if water gets near one of the 4 stove tops, it trips e breaker, basically.
 

restorer-john

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I'm going to suggest the "horrendous noise" was not anything other than the arc being maintained as the breaker attempted to trip. A high current load on a set of contacts will do that, and the amplifier merely amplified and reproduced that mains borne burst of power fluctuation/noise.

I have plenty of amplifiers that will reproduce the ripple control used by the electric company to turn on and off controlled supply equipment like hot water systems at peak times etc.

If you've ever tuned off a wall plate power switch slowly enough to cause arcing with connected HiFi, you will have heard that before.
 

Holmz

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I don’t know about the first part - all electrical wiring is under ground. But only our house is afffected to my knowledge when it happens, if that’s what you mean?
...

If the transformer feeds a few houses, then every house will see the same voltage spike.
You will see theirs.
They will see yours.

A resistive load will not create a spike… but an inductive load often could/would.


Any changes the rheostats or thermostats cause will be instantaneous and rapid.

So it should be cracking and popping as the stove maintains the temp… but does not.
So it was more likely that the inrush of current and voltage causing the breaker to blow, also rattled the neutral line well off of zero??
 

Bob from Florida

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Is there an inductive spike from the transformer?
It seems like it would rattle through many houses up and down the street.

The stove would be a purely resistive load, and I would expect (dunno) that the stove clicks on and off in response to holding a temperature, but I suppose it could slowly change load.
Without more data, this is basically a guessing game.
My neighborhood has underground power with a transformer every 2 houses. Breaker for range is 50 amps. Transformer secondary is supplying greater than 50 amps when the breaker trips. Voltage on secondary spikes when current is suddenly removed. Will this produce a "horrendous" noise through the stereo speakers with a surge strip? Possibly, without knowing how big a spike is generated - still insufficient data. You could get some line monitoring equipment and record what happens which may help with the explanation - this does not help the problem. Adding surge suppression won't hurt and may save some electronics. I have always had good surge strips on any electronics susceptible to surges. I even added a "whole house" suppressor at the incoming power panel when I replaced my old pool controller with the newer model with a CPU.
 

Holmz

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Without more data, this is basically a guessing game.

^True^
But I would be replacing the stove top before lashing out on power conditioners etc.

This next part, to me, reads like an issue with the stove top that is worth considering the implications of.


It’s an old electric stove - if water gets near one of the 4 stove tops, it trips e breaker, basically.
 

Chrispy

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^True^
But I would be replacing the stove top before lashing out on power conditioners etc.

This next part, to me, reads like an issue with the stove top that is worth considering the implications of.
Yeah I kept looking for a solution to the original issue....
 

Bob from Florida

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^True^
But I would be replacing the stove top before lashing out on power conditioners etc.

This next part, to me, reads like an issue with the stove top that is worth considering the implications of.
Not power conditioners - surge strips for the stereo. Brand suggested - Tripp Lite, good specs and not expensive.
 

JSmith

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and don't want to blow 200€ on a glorified powerstrip
Oh you don't need to spend that much for a surge protecting power strip... just make sure it has a low clamping voltage (i.e 330V, not higher than 400V) and over 3000 joules protection.


JSmith
 

Holmz

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Not power conditioners - surge strips for the stereo. Brand suggested - Tripp Lite, good specs and not expensive.

Nothing wrong with a surge protector strip.

But… if the stove top always blows the breaker when water is around, then how important is it to maintain good stereo sound when the breaker blows?
Arguably we would fix the problem causing the surge and the breaker blowing, rather than focus on a cure for what is a known causal mechanism.

I would either replace the stovetop, or take out insurance on the cook.
And maybe also get a surge protector.
 
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