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Proson Twin 716 Spinorama measurements (CTA-2034)

What are your thoughts about this speaker?

  • Very good

    Votes: 4 3.2%
  • Above average

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • It's ok

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • Below average

    Votes: 35 27.8%
  • Poor

    Votes: 83 65.9%

  • Total voters
    126

Ageve

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
370
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Location
Sweden
Here are measurements of a Proson Twin 716 floorstanding speaker.


proson.png


It was made in Falkenberg, Sweden, in the early 2000s. The factory also produced JWS and Genexxa-speakers. You've probably never heard of any of them, but they were all inexpensive and had a poor reputation. People who worked at the factory told stories about drivers having such poor quality, that they had to discard half of them.

There are very few measurements of these speakers available, and as far as I know, no one has measured the 716 before.

It looks like a 2,5-way design, but it's not. Both woofers are playing the same signal.


My measurements are quasi-anechoic, with nearfield port+woofers, corrected for baffle edge diffraction, combined with gated 1m measurements.

As usual, I started by measuring the on-axis response:

Proson Twin 716 quasi anechoic 1m.png



The 10+ dB dip in the crossover region looks like a cancellation due to reversed tweeter polarity, but it's not. This is the response with the tweeter inverted:

Proson Twin 716 reversed tweeter polarity.png



I also measured the second speaker, and the response was almost identical. All crossover components are within spec, and all drivers look fine as well (no visible damage, and no audible distortion).


Here's the CTA-2034 data:

A huge, broad dip at 2.5 kHz, and a smaller one at 7 kHz. Poor directivity.

Proson Twin 716 CTA-2034.png



Proson Twin 716 early reflections.png



Estimated in-room response:

Proson Twin 716 estimated inroom response.png



Horizontal directivity:

Proson 716 horizontal directivity polar.png


0-90 deg:
Proson Twin 716 horizontal 0-90 deg.png



Vertical directivity:

Proson Twin 716 vertical directivity polar.png


0-90 deg:
Proson 716 vertical directivity lines pos.png


Proson 716 vertical directivity lines neg.png



Near-field:

This explains the poor frequency response.

The System One-speaker I measured recently performed better, even though the woofer was playing full-range. That's how bad the Proson woofers are (this speaker has a 12 dB / octave crossover).

Proson Twin 716 nearfield response.png



Distortion:

Proson Twin 716 thd 86db spl.png



Proson Twin 716 thd 86db percent.png



Distortion is probably a bit higher than this (very uneven response at the 30 cm distance I use for distortion measurements - hard to get the levels right). Not too bad though.

The vertical directivity is very poor. You can hear the sound change by just moving up and down a few centimeters. That's what happens whey you have two woofers next to each other playing the same midrange signal.


Subjective test:

I started by listening to Eva Cassidy - Anniversary Song, and oh boy is it bad. It sounds exactly like I remember other Proson speakers sounding. Very boxed in, dull and with a non-existent soundstage.

Imagine having a cold, and a pair of closed-back headphones on, while listening.

I then continued with Alison Krauss - River In The Rain. It sounded like she had a thick blanket over her head, and the musicians were playing inside a cardboard box.

Proson and it's sister brands are loathed by Swedish Hi-fi enthusiast, and it's not hard to understand why. They were inexpensive though. ;)
 

Attachments

  • Proson716_CTA-2034-A Floor Bounce.zip
    82.5 KB · Views: 52
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Is that 2.5kHz hole intentional, or just the result of sloppiness/laziness/poor engineering? Curious based on your comments about other Proson speakers. Fixing that obviously wouldn't make these an amazing speaker but it'd at least make them listenable.
 
Is that 2.5kHz hole intentional, or just the result of sloppiness/laziness/poor engineering? Curious based on your comments about other Proson speakers. Fixing that obviously wouldn't make these an amazing speaker but it'd at least make them listenable.

That complete lack of directivity control would still make putting them in a room a crapshoot.
 
It looks like a 2,5-way design, but it's not. Both woofers are playing the same signal.
Which is its biggest problem, in a 2.5-way configuration its vertical directivity and total power response would have been so much better, same also the on-axis crossover dip.
 
That complete lack of directivity control would still make putting them in a room a crapshoot.
Of course, it has all kinds of problems still, but it'd at least go from "complete rubbish" to "passable".
 
Is that 2.5kHz hole intentional, or just the result of sloppiness/laziness/poor engineering? Curious based on your comments about other Proson speakers. Fixing that obviously wouldn't make these an amazing speaker but it'd at least make them listenable.
I think it's because of the strong directivity of 2 woofers at 2.5kHz frequency. When you mount the measurement mic at 1m on the axis of the tweeter, it's already off-axis for the woofers. You probably wouldn't hear this dip on-axis in a real room with a 2.5-3.5m distance from the speaker, but the overall design is not ideal. The same speaker drivers would sound better in a 2.5-way or d'appolito configuration. However, there are also 3rd and 5th harmonics dominating in the bass region... :confused:
 
Is that 2.5kHz hole intentional, or just the result of sloppiness/laziness/poor engineering? Curious based on your comments about other Proson speakers. Fixing that obviously wouldn't make these an amazing speaker but it'd at least make them listenable.

I don't know, but my guess is that it's just laziness. They had a number of similar speakers, and the ones I have listened to all had the same boxy/muffled sound.

Here's another example, Genexxa Double Six:

post-27321-0-78940300-1661938318_thumb.png


These are some of their brands:

JWS
Proson
Genexxa
Sonab
System One
Dynavoice

I had a pair of JWS speakers back in the 90s. The build quality was even worse back then.

Which is its biggest problem, in a 2.5-way configuration its vertical directivity and total power response would have been so much better, same also the on-axis crossover dip.

Yep, the woofers are cancelling each other out, and the upper woofer is also cancelling out the tweeter at 7 kHz, probably because of the resonances.
 
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Can't burn firewood in my city, and far to large for a door stop, so no real use for this speaker. I must be feeling generous and voted below average. Company needs to attend a seminar on design and crossover design.
 
Here is my take on the EQ.
Please report your findings, positive or negative!

For the score rational your journey starts here
Explanation for the sub score

The following EQs are “anechoic” EQs to get the speaker right before room integration.
If you able to implement these EQs you must add EQ at LF for room integration, that is usually not optional… see hints there.

The raw data with corrected ER and PIR:

Score no EQ: 2.5
With Sub: 4.6

Spinorama with no EQ:
  • Huge dip in the 1-4kHz region
  • Resonances
  • Poor directivity
Proson Twin 716 No EQ Spinorama.png


EQ design:

I have generated two EQs. The APO config files are attached.
  • The first one, labelled, LW is targeted at making the LW flat
  • The second, labelled Score, starts with the first one and adds the score as an optimization variable.
  • The EQs are designed in the context of regular stereo use i.e. domestic environment, no warranty is provided for a near field use in a studio environment although the LW might be better suited for this purpose.

Score EQ LW: 4.6
with sub: 6.6

Score EQ Score: 5.3
with sub: 7.4

Code:
Proson Twin 716  APO EQ LW 96000Hz
December092024-124406

Preamp: -8.00 dB

Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 50.9 Hz Gain 0.00 dB Q 2.11
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 77.8 Hz Gain -6.45 dB Q 1.77
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 876.9 Hz Gain -1.90 dB Q 4.20
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1267.4 Hz Gain 2.31 dB Q 6.89
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1626.5 Hz Gain -0.95 dB Q 0.66
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2621.1 Hz Gain 8.66 dB Q 1.38
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 8296.1 Hz Gain -2.20 dB Q 6.01


Proson Twin 716  APO EQ Score 96000Hz
December092024-124407

Preamp: -7.90 dB

Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 50.9 Hz Gain 0.00 dB Q 2.11
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 78.0 Hz Gain -6.45 dB Q 1.77
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 864.9 Hz Gain -1.90 dB Q 6.87
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1282.2 Hz Gain 4.92 dB Q 5.84
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1631.6 Hz Gain -2.77 dB Q 1.42
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2741.8 Hz Gain 8.66 dB Q 1.52
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 8156.9 Hz Gain -2.20 dB Q 5.26

Proson Twin 716  EQ Design.png


Spinorama EQ LW
Proson Twin 716 LW EQ Spinorama.png


Spinorama EQ Score
Proson Twin 716 Score EQ Spinorama.png


Zoom PIR-LW-ON
Proson Twin 716  Zoom.png


Regression - Tonal
Proson Twin 716  Regression.png


Radar no EQ vs EQ score
Some improvements
Proson Twin 716  Radar.png
 

Attachments

  • Proson Twin 716 APO EQ Score 96000Hz.txt
    422 bytes · Views: 21
  • Proson Twin 716 APO EQ LW 96000Hz.txt
    419 bytes · Views: 22
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Hallo Folks.

We can see here how bad things can get when a company decides to offer cheap product (low quality of sourced drivers) and makes substandard engineering decisions (employing those drivers in 2-way, instead of 2.5-way configuration).

The fact that this speaker is made in Sweden (usually associated with high quality products) does not help. Perhaps it helped initial sales of speaker in days when independent measurements were rare and small percentage of customers were on forums. Many thanks @Ageve.

Cheers.:)
 
The factory also produced JWS and Genexxa-speakers.

Genexxa was a speaker brand of Intertan (Tandy/Radio Shack). by time they started plastering Genexxa on stuff, the rot had set in so bad the company was finished.
 
Can't burn firewood in my city, and far to large for a door stop, so no real use for this speaker.

From an old Swedish forum post (a thread about replacing the tweeters in a Genexxa speaker): ;)

Considering how those speakers sound, I think you could replace it [the tweeter] with just about anything.

The tweeter blew in one of my speakers once.

I replaced them with a pair of Panasonic car tweeters, mounted on top of the cabinet, and it sounded just as good as the originals. Or well, at least it didn’t sound worse, truth be told.

I ended up torching them. I didn’t have the heart to sell them to anyone.


 
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From an old Swedish forum post (a thread about replacing the tweeters in a Genexxa speaker): ;)

Considering how those speakers sound, I think you could replace it [the tweeter] with just about anything.

The tweeter blew in one of my speakers once.

I replaced them with a pair of Panasonic car tweeters, mounted on top of the cabinet, and it sounded just as good as the originals. Or well, at least it didn’t sound worse, truth be told.

I ended up torching them. I didn’t have the heart to sell them to anyone.


Good job Ageve. Shit speakers, I'm just saying. :oops:

Changing tweeters. Then you quickly end up in the rabbit hole.Why not rebuild them to a 2.5-way design? New passive crossover? Brace the boxes?
Two good standard tweeters around $70-$80, just two iron core coils as cut of at 300-500 Hz for a 2.5 way design around $30. Then all the other parts for the new crossover. That plus a pair of used Proson Twin 716's can cost, $40-$70? Plus all the testing, measuring, new tests and measurements and so on. That in itself I can understand those who think it's the fun part of the process but still.

Then you are up in sums for what a pair of good used speakers such as, for example, Wharfedale Diamond 220/225 cost. Plus almost money left over then to add some used subwoofer with them. :)

Edit:
Trying to get Proson Twin 716 better with various DIY trix seems pointless in my eyes.Not that I think anyone would want to try to make any good speakers out of them. That you Ageve fiddle with them "for fun" is another matter. Also, it's really interesting that you're testing them. As you say no one else has.:)

If you want to build yourself, why not choose a project that has proven to be good speakers, like: :)

 
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