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But does he attack his colleagues because he disagrees?
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Proposal
- Thread starter smowry
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But does he attack his colleagues because he disagrees?
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Altec, (in)famously, used a microphone diaphragm for an "entry-level" compression driver that they sold both in standalone form and as part of a value-priced (by Altec standards) 12" coax of some repute. The tweeters were notoriously fragile and, at this late date, they're virtually irreparable.
source: https://www.itishifi.com/archives//2016/08/altec-3000a-tweeter.html
The 601 coax, from archive.org
a4eaudio
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Streichholzschächtelchen vs matchbox
Mr. Swordfish
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A "driver" is a chauffer, sometimes driving a taxicab, in which case they are very often also a speaker despite what your preferences in drivers may be.
I prefer my drivers to be quiet. YMMV.
Yes, the radio station has the 'transmitter' (that is one way, as far as I know) and the tuner or radio (wherever it may be) is the receiver.
And then there are 'two-way radios and Walkie Talkies' both of which are transceivers.
I think that I am getting vertigo.
Mr. Swordfish
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"The English language drinks prescriptivists' tears like fine wine."
RexrothPigeon
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Just push the report button, and then the mods can decide
Yes! And if I need to hire a 'driver', I need a 'driver' who has his own vehicle to drive (perhaps a TAXI), as the reason that I would likely need a driver is that I am somewhere without my vehicle to drive. In which case, I may need a navigator or a GPS (which I have noticed don't always work as well as a navigator).
- Thread Starter
- #49
@amirm
Okay, you reject my proposal and frankly speaking, I understand why. There were several well stated points made here today.
Now I have a question. Who has the worst manners, General Richie with respect to you or Grimoire with respect to Steve Mowry (https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/14_Books_Tech_Papers/Mowry_Steve/)? It seems clear that both individuals attack the person when they disagree or misunderstand and I defended you when General Richie attacked you. The sample size is small but the methodology is similar, attack the person and ignore the issue. Note that General Richie continues to claim that you are confused. The irony to me is that neither you nor I are confused.
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Okay, you reject my proposal and frankly speaking, I understand why. There were several well stated points made here today.
Now I have a question. Who has the worst manners, General Richie with respect to you or Grimoire with respect to Steve Mowry (https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/14_Books_Tech_Papers/Mowry_Steve/)? It seems clear that both individuals attack the person when they disagree or misunderstand and I defended you when General Richie attacked you. The sample size is small but the methodology is similar, attack the person and ignore the issue. Note that General Richie continues to claim that you are confused. The irony to me is that neither you nor I are confused.
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So someone wants an empty matchbox?
Then they will need some zünder. (Austrian, as I was born in Salzburg).
Ich hab Streichholzschächtelchen ungefähr so oft benutzt wie Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmutzenständer.
LittleJohnny is at it again: "But, but, but, what do you call a speaker that speaks loudly?"
LittleJohnny knows about trick questions.
What they give with one hand, they take away with the other! From their reference design: https://purifi-audio.com/blog/tech-notes-1/spk16-reference-design-12
"SPK16 is a passive 2 way speaker system with a 6.5X-NAA alu cone woofer assisted by two passive radiators on the sides of the box combined with a prototype of the coming PTT 33mm long stroke dome tweeter.
[...]
In addition, leveraging the ultra-low distortion and IMD of the PTT drivers.
[...]
These irregularities may be caused by a combination of the difficulties in measuring the free field response accurately at these frequencies and the interaction between the crossover network output impedance and impedance of the driver. The driver has high impedance peaks determined by the bass alignment used. On the sides of these peaks the driver is respectively inductive or capacitive. "
Noske
Active Member
Not all people operating a car are drivers, either. Some prefer to be referred to as travellers.
Which could be poetic. If it was relevant.
It isn't.
Which could be poetic. If it was relevant.
It isn't.
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Nothing too odd to argue about at ASR.
Mr. Swordfish
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The "empty matchbox" is a longstanding trope in American Blues.
"Ich sitze hier und frag mich, ob ein leerer Streichholzschächtelchen meine Klamotten packt?"* doesn't have the same folksy charm as the original, which I suppose is why the blues never caught on in Germany.
* I'm sittin’ here wonderin’, will a matchbox hold my clothes?
And not all who wander are lost. They are just checking other places out.
Arguments of semantics are so fascinating and such a good use of time...
Languages are different, and so are interpretations.
In german language a (loud)speaker never would bei called 'Sprecher' (that is reserved for a speaking person), but Lautsprecher, or simply Box (and that in most cases). A tranducer would be called Treiber (driver), but also in many cases Chassis (nobody knows why, but it's widely used).
So 'transducers in the speaker' translates to 'Chassis in der Box'.
Confusing: yes. And this is only one example, there may be a lot more with different languages.
So, finally, I do understand the impetus of @smowry to have a clear terminology beyond 'daily' use.
(reminds me of the imperial/metric confusion)
In german language a (loud)speaker never would bei called 'Sprecher' (that is reserved for a speaking person), but Lautsprecher, or simply Box (and that in most cases). A tranducer would be called Treiber (driver), but also in many cases Chassis (nobody knows why, but it's widely used).
So 'transducers in the speaker' translates to 'Chassis in der Box'.
Confusing: yes. And this is only one example, there may be a lot more with different languages.
So, finally, I do understand the impetus of @smowry to have a clear terminology beyond 'daily' use.
(reminds me of the imperial/metric confusion)
- Thread Starter
- #60
Rhetorically speaking, we can identify "key words" within this discussion, the list might include "terminology", "confusion" and "general public". Now technically speaking, I will begin a analogous discussion that will contain the same key words, "terminology", "confusion" and "general public".
Thanks to our good friends, Dr.'s Thiele and Small, a common term is Bl with unit N/A. Commonly known as the "force factor". Then with regards to audio transducers, the force factor is important in both evaluating transducers and in enclosure design to the general public, right?
Having said that, I make the claim that Bl alone is a meaningless parameter. I will present an example below.
Transducer A has a Bl product of 10 N/A
Transducer B has a Bl of product 8 N/A
Now which motor is better? (Warning Trick Question)
Transducer A is 6 ohms DC.
Transducer B is 3 ohms DC.
Answer is transducer B!
The answer is based on the fact that Beta, motor efficiency factor, is the true figure of merit for evaluation of a transducer's motor assembly.
Beta = (Bl)^2/Re with unit N^2/W
Beta(A) = 16.67
Beta(B) = 21.33
Furthermore, Beta does not even depend on l. Where l is the length of voice coil wire winding with unit m.
Beta = (Bl)^2/Re N^2/W
Re = (rho)l/S ohms
Where S is the cross section of the wire m^2
rho is the resistivity ohm m
Then Beta = (B^2)lS/rho
But lS = Volume m^3
Then Beta = (B^2)volume of conductor/rho
Then for a given wire type, Beta depends on the volume of conductor in the magnetic gap along with the square of the magnet flux density, B with unit T. In practice, the greater the voice coil wire winding length for a given volume of conductor, l, the poorer the packing factor due to insulation!
A theoretical rectangular wire example where a manufacturer has an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm version of the same transducer and voice coil and magnetic assembly dimension are the the same, then length and cross-section of conductor are different accordingly, 1.0 W @ 1.0 m sensitivity will be approximately the same but 2.83 V @ 1.0 m will exhibit a 3 dB delta. Note that the 4 ohm version will have a greater packing factor and the 4 ohm version will be slightly more efficient because the volume of conductor will be slightly higher with less insulation, remembering that the amplifier sees the entire coil.
Amazingly, the only company that I am aware of that specifies Beta on their transducer data sheets is Peerless by Tymphany, now part of Eastech!
Purifi does not specify Beta. https://ptt.purifi-audio.com/shop/ptt6-5w08-nfa-01-ptt6-5w08-nfa-01-280/document/717
Sure the guys at Purifi know enough to square Bl and divide by Re but does the general public know this? Does General* Richie know this?
Does specifying Bl alone without specifying Beta create a source of confusion for the general public?
In science and engineering, terminology is important, while in marketing, rhetoric is considered important.
Finally, what's more important to ASR?
@Grimoire please refrain from personal attacks or is your ignore button still deployed?
* Unlike in the military, in audio a "General" is one who generalizes.
Thanks to our good friends, Dr.'s Thiele and Small, a common term is Bl with unit N/A. Commonly known as the "force factor". Then with regards to audio transducers, the force factor is important in both evaluating transducers and in enclosure design to the general public, right?
Having said that, I make the claim that Bl alone is a meaningless parameter. I will present an example below.
Transducer A has a Bl product of 10 N/A
Transducer B has a Bl of product 8 N/A
Now which motor is better? (Warning Trick Question)
Transducer A is 6 ohms DC.
Transducer B is 3 ohms DC.
Answer is transducer B!
The answer is based on the fact that Beta, motor efficiency factor, is the true figure of merit for evaluation of a transducer's motor assembly.
Beta = (Bl)^2/Re with unit N^2/W
Beta(A) = 16.67
Beta(B) = 21.33
Furthermore, Beta does not even depend on l. Where l is the length of voice coil wire winding with unit m.
Beta = (Bl)^2/Re N^2/W
Re = (rho)l/S ohms
Where S is the cross section of the wire m^2
rho is the resistivity ohm m
Then Beta = (B^2)lS/rho
But lS = Volume m^3
Then Beta = (B^2)volume of conductor/rho
Then for a given wire type, Beta depends on the volume of conductor in the magnetic gap along with the square of the magnet flux density, B with unit T. In practice, the greater the voice coil wire winding length for a given volume of conductor, l, the poorer the packing factor due to insulation!
A theoretical rectangular wire example where a manufacturer has an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm version of the same transducer and voice coil and magnetic assembly dimension are the the same, then length and cross-section of conductor are different accordingly, 1.0 W @ 1.0 m sensitivity will be approximately the same but 2.83 V @ 1.0 m will exhibit a 3 dB delta. Note that the 4 ohm version will have a greater packing factor and the 4 ohm version will be slightly more efficient because the volume of conductor will be slightly higher with less insulation, remembering that the amplifier sees the entire coil.
Amazingly, the only company that I am aware of that specifies Beta on their transducer data sheets is Peerless by Tymphany, now part of Eastech!
Purifi does not specify Beta. https://ptt.purifi-audio.com/shop/ptt6-5w08-nfa-01-ptt6-5w08-nfa-01-280/document/717
Sure the guys at Purifi know enough to square Bl and divide by Re but does the general public know this? Does General* Richie know this?
Does specifying Bl alone without specifying Beta create a source of confusion for the general public?
In science and engineering, terminology is important, while in marketing, rhetoric is considered important.
Finally, what's more important to ASR?
@Grimoire please refrain from personal attacks or is your ignore button still deployed?
* Unlike in the military, in audio a "General" is one who generalizes.
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