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Proposal to achieve Whole House Audio (+more function) using (3) WiiM devices.

Ronald L

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I am relatively new to ASR. There is so much to learn and absorb. I am old school audio guy (which you will see below). This is my first thread – and I first want to thank Amir for his testing work – and for maintaining this environment. What a wonderful community he has fostered: a cordial, professional, and respectful environment. A haven in today’s world. Thank you for welcoming new folks.

I am likely providing TMI here but I’m hoping the background information (audio gear and how used) is helpful to anyone trying to understand my mindset. I am at the start of technology curve on streaming. I have so much to learn. And I don’t want to make any assumptions before making purchases.

Hopefully this is the correct area to post my questions. I can surely repost if needed. Many of my questions relate to basic operations for streamers - and I just don’t have hands on experience with a WiiM like device. I hope that much of what I have written as assumptions are correct.

Another perspective: I hope to learn from this process because I plan to build a new home soon – and Whole House Audio in that case will include speakers in the ceiling in general areas of the house. For now, I have (3) existing systems to integrate.

Background: I currently use Spotify for streaming through a bluMe Bluetooth receiver to my main listening system (Family Room). It works fine. But Spotify’s (non Hifi?) audio quality notably lacks when compared to my old school Yamaha CD player. I do like the Spotify UI though. Being able to run Spotify on my laptop into my main listening system and control the volume at the dinner table with my iPhone is nice.

My (3) listening areas are my Office, Family Room, and Garage. Below I describe each system and how I envision a solution for each with a WiiM device. The WiiM devices seem like a good choice for both performance and value. I am looking for advice, corrections, and candid feedback.

Office: I currently use a NuForce Icon2 desktop amplifier (from 2012) that drive Definitive Technology Studio Monitor 350 speakers (from 2007) . Good audio quality for a desktop. A nice bonus is that Zoom call audio quality is great. A key (seemingly now uncommon) feature of the Icon2 is that it has a USB input. The DAC in the icon2 is better than any PC sound card back then. It continues to work flawlessly.

I am proposing a WiiM Amp Pro ($379) for the Office – as a significant audio quality/power improvement. But… (it seems) the WiiM Amp Pro (and all WiiM devices) lack a USB input. Solving my laptop/PC as an input source to the WiiM is a must.

Q1) I should be able to make the WiiM Amp Pro a Bluetooth device on my laptop?

Q2) If so, then when using my laptop for work (not streaming), the WiiM Amp Pro INPUT would be to set be Bluetooth?

Q3) When desiring ‘Whole House Audio’ I would change WiiM Amp Pro INPUT to be Spotify (etc.)? And this same input becomes the source for other WiiM devices? (Through a WiiM ‘grouping’ feature, etc. that I have yet to learn.)

Q4) Now … I assume that Spotify RUNS on the WiiM Amp Pro. And the WiiM Amp Pro can be controlled by either the WiiM Phone App -or a web browser? Both at the same time? And either of these are making a connection (via Wi-Fi or Ethernet) to the WiiM Amp Pro?

Q5) I sure hope the WiiM Phone App makes it easy to quickly change the WiiM Amp Pro INPUT source. But can the INPUT also be controlled by the physical ‘remote’ as well? This would sort of be akin to an input selector knob!

Q6) As an alternative to making my laptop a Bluetooth input to the WiiM Amp Pro, could I use USB to Optical Converter (e.g. SMSL PO100) to convert a PC USB digital signal to Optical, and use the optical input of the WiiM Amp Pro? Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLYVZCV...W0RKZM1Y&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it)

Q7) If my laptop cannot be a Bluetooth input to the WiiM Amp Pro, then I suppose I could continue to use the NuForce Icon2 which has ‘line out’ to send an analog signal to the WiiM Amp Pro ‘Line-In’ (?)

Q8) What might be the ‘best’ approach for the laptop/PC input connection to the WiiM Amp Pro: a) Bluetooth, or b) USB to Optical, or c) Nuforce Icon2 line-out?


Garage: I spend a fair amount of time in my heated (2.5 car) garage working on cars and home projects. I listen to music and podcasts. This is old school: I have an Advent 300 receiver (year 1980) that I have used on and off for 40+ years. It was recently recapped/cleaned and performs to spec. I probably should buy another WiiM Amp Pro for the garage. But nostalgia has won me over. So, I am thinking about the (non-amp) WiiM Pro Plus ($219) and using the Advent 300 (at 15 watt/channel). My garage speakers are Phase Technology PC1.1 series II (which have an efficient 90Db at 1W).

Q9) Any comments for using a WiiM Pro Plus in my garage?

Family Room: The Family Room also functions as a Home Theater and for 2 channel listening.
  • Home theater receiver: Yamaha V2065 (purchased 2010).
  • McIntosh MAC7200 receiver (from 2021 – during covid) for 2 channel listending.
  • Front speakers: Phase Technology PC9.5 tower speakers (purchased 2010)
  • Center channel: Phase Technology CI-70viii in wall
  • Rear speakers: DCM Time Windows (purchased 1978)
The MAC7200 drives the Phase Technology PC9.5s. When the Yamaha V2065 is turned on the MAC7200 automatically runs in Home Theater mode. Front channel Line-out from the V2065 becomes the source/input to the MAC7200. My other inputs to the MAC7200 are my Yamaha CD player and my current bluMe Bluetooth receiver (which streams from my laptop) which can either be a analog or optical input to the MAC7200.

Q10) I propose replacing the bluMe Bluetooth with another WiiM Pro Plus. I don’t see a need for the functionality of the WiiM Ultra. Thoughts or considerations?

Q11) In summary I propose: (1) WiiM Amp Pro for the Office and (1) WiiM Pro Plus for the garage, and (1 WiiM Amp Pro for the Family Room. Then when specific times for Whole House Audio present: it seems that I should be to route any input from the WiiM Amp Pro to the other WiiM devices? And I should be able to control the volume of the (3) WiiM devices independently?

Q12) Any final thoughts?
 
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes, although you have to set the input and output devices in the app, it's easy.
  4. It depends on what you mean by "runs on", in any rate you need another device (e.g. phone) to control Spotify with. I believe the WiiM streams the audio directly from Spotify, though. The control is via Wifi.
  5. Easy to select input on the app but I don't have remotes for my WiiMs.
  6. Very likely yes
  7. Yep
  8. Technically the best quality will be via USB / optical, in practice you probably won't notice a difference.
  9. Pro Plus is probably overkill unless you need the features, the sound is perfectly good on the Pro or even Mini.
  10. See #9 but it should work fine.
  11. Yep
  12. Welcome to ASR! I have like 5 WiiM units in my house (and one outside in a waterproof box for the patio) and once you get it running it works great for whole-house audio.
 
kemmler3D,
Thank you for your reply - and for confirming my limited knowledge.

Maybe this is a more complete (yet conceptual) statement concerning #4: There is WiiM UI that operates either from a PC browser or Phone App. The WiiM UI makes a WiFi or Ethernet connection to the WiiM Amp Pro were it controls a program/app (that runs/operates on the WiiM Amp Pro) - that is used to control significant functions:
- It selects and controls the source, which could be Spotify (where it streams content from a Spotify server) or another source.
- It enables Whole House Audio: which is grouping WiiM devices so they all recieve the same output (if desired) from a primary WiiM device. And selecting the input for the primary device which could be Spotify or another source.
- When not in Grouping mode, allow control of each WiiM device (input source, volume, even EQ).

???

I will evaluate which WiiM makes the most sense for the Garage and Family Room (and these decision can come later). I can now make the case to my better half for the WiiM Amp Pro my Office set up.
 
Welcome to ASR, with an open mind and attitude... you'll find the international ASR coalition of audio geeks a vast pool of information. (... a little supplication goes a long way... lol) :cool:
 
kemmler3D,
Thank you for your reply - and for confirming my limited knowledge.

Maybe this is a more complete (yet conceptual) statement concerning #4: There is WiiM UI that operates either from a PC browser or Phone App. The WiiM UI makes a WiFi or Ethernet connection to the WiiM Amp Pro were it controls a program/app (that runs/operates on the WiiM Amp Pro) - that is used to control significant functions:
- It selects and controls the source, which could be Spotify (where it streams content from a Spotify server) or another source.
- It enables Whole House Audio: which is grouping WiiM devices so they all recieve the same output (if desired) from a primary WiiM device. And selecting the input for the primary device which could be Spotify or another source.
- When not in Grouping mode, allow control of each WiiM device (input source, volume, even EQ).

???

I will evaluate which WiiM makes the most sense for the Garage and Family Room (and these decision can come later). I can now make the case to my better half for the WiiM Amp Pro my Office set up.
Yep, it works as you describe here.

You pick one WiiM as the "master" or source, then you group the other units (any or all) under that one. They play whatever the "master" they are grouped under is playing. Each has separate volume and EQ controls.

I think you can probably even have multiple "zones" at the same time (e.g. stream your turntable in the living room and bedroom, play Spotify on the patio and in the garage) but I haven't tried that because my house isn't that big. :D

Because the various units have a wide variety of I/O you can do wacky stuff like put a speaker in your bathroom and listen to the TV while you're in there.

FWIW my wife is not into tech or audio at all, and finds the WiiM app usable without asking me to configure it every time, so +1 anecdote for family-friendliness I guess.

For the budget play I would recommend a refurbished WiiM Mini if you can find one, paired with one of the cheaper Fosi amps or cheap powered speakers. You get all the streaming and EQ functionality much cheaper, with only a miniscule decrease in sound quality. In a secondary system it's hard to imagine you would notice the extra noise/distortion from the mini.

A WiiM Mini plus a used pair of JBL 305p is probably the cheapest "good" system a person can build today, you may be able to do it for less than $200.
 
I have 5 Wiim minis in my house all in the same group so they all play the same thing simultaneously which I control from my phone. Each room has its own amp and speaker setup and I can control the volume in each room separately from my phone which is very convenient. The equalization in the Wiim units is also very nice because each room can be tuned separately (with some effort). Note that the only thing in common with grouping mode is the source. Volume and equalization are still done in the individual units even when grouped. There is a master volume control, but I never use it.

It's very easy to group and ungroup so if you wanted multiple simultaneous streams in different rooms that wouldn't be hard. I've never used it that way though.

The source UI can either be the Wiim UI which is OK, or with Spotify and Tidal you can use their native UIs on a phone which are much better and can control the Spotify or Tidal streaming apps in the Wiim by remote connection. The Wiim is still directly streaming from the internet, but the phone app is remotely controlling what is being streamed. This isn't a system using Bluetooth or some other casting system, the phone app is just telling the Wiim streamer app what to stream.

If you don't like Spotify quality, you might consider Tidal which the Wiim units directly stream as well. I think Tidal and Spotify are the only remote streaming services on the Wiim, but I may be wrong.
 
First things congratulations. I as going to do something but with heos and then I experienced the app snd the expense so I went with wiim as well. First I would plan out by conduit doe all the network and speakers wires are going. I found this gave this the most flexible.

I have my wiim ultra/amp/minis/s10/t10 on a seperate network along with all the tvs streamers and security cameras on seperate from thr friends and family wireless/home network.

This is so I uave discrete control of the entertainment. No worries over fight who watches listen to anything as I can close it all down immediately. I use a universal remote with limited functions to control most ir tech. The Bluetooth wiim remote can be set up to use the first 4 favourites and inputs so you can have say 3 sootify playlist and a Internet radio station attached.

Example on let say the wiim ultra in my home cinema as 3 tidal Playlists and a random radio station on it and I have turned off the display so no one can change the inputs on screen this does give control on whats listen to. Especially if you grandkids staying. I can have them listening to limited music on a preapproved plalist with out the worry.


Or I could have a party and the house is full of people snd some one else has the wiim app they could change the music playing.

To break it down

First lay conduit as ethernet is the way to go not wireless.

Two have the wiim on a seperate network for security and safety.

Three ensure all device are step up for their corresponding jobs on the house.

Fourth enjoy the fruits of your labor.
 
First things congratulations. I as going to do something but with heos and then I experienced the app snd the expense so I went with wiim as well. First I would plan out by conduit doe all the network and speakers wires are going. I found this gave this the most flexible.

I have my wiim ultra/amp/minis/s10/t10 on a seperate network along with all the tvs streamers and security cameras on seperate from thr friends and family wireless/home network.

This is so I uave discrete control of the entertainment. No worries over fight who watches listen to anything as I can close it all down immediately. I use a universal remote with limited functions to control most ir tech. The Bluetooth wiim remote can be set up to use the first 4 favourites and inputs so you can have say 3 sootify playlist and a Internet radio station attached.

Example on let say the wiim ultra in my home cinema as 3 tidal Playlists and a random radio station on it and I have turned off the display so no one can change the inputs on screen this does give control on whats listen to. Especially if you grandkids staying. I can have them listening to limited music on a preapproved plalist with out the worry.


Or I could have a party and the house is full of people snd some one else has the wiim app they could change the music playing.

To break it down

First lay conduit as ethernet is the way to go not wireless.

Two have the wiim on a seperate network for security and safety.

Three ensure all device are step up for their corresponding jobs on the house.

Fourth enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Ethernet is way overkill for such a system, music is very low bandwidth, easily handled by WiFi and the network security limits who can access it. If you have a reasonable WiFi system use it. If you don't, set one up, I recommend a mesh system.

If you want to control what's listened to, just don't have the IR remotes available, use your phone.
 
@Ronald L welcome to ASR. The folks here will steer you right. The WiiM products are great in my book and should be able handle all your needs (I think).

I have 6 Minis. One is dedicated to the occasional feeding of the zones with some analog LP playing. Last night we had a music gathering and had three zones sharing streaming of Spotify and Amazon as well as records.

I was able to control things from any of three devices, iPhone, iPad Mini and my small laptop. Sent to three zones. (Pic below is running today in my main lp and our living room)

IMG_1870.png
 
Sell the house, buy a small flat/hovel like we have.
I can manage whole hovel audio with one pair of speakers, one amp and a volume control. Neighbouring hovel dwellers may be annoyed, but it's nice to have one small thing over you people with real houses! :)

The only thing I can offer you here is advice over the Ethernet/Wifi thing.

I find that audio streaming can be pernickety over wifi, but can't talk re the Wiim devices.

However, in our hovel where I have a home office setup to headphones as well as the main system, I have a wifi extender with Ethernet sockets - if I try to stream from that using wifi it falls over, but with an Ethernet cable from the extender, no problem. So if you set up a wifi network for the Wiims, having Ethernet out from the access points could be useful with streaming.

Good luck.
 
Or put in a decent Wi-Fi setup maybe?

*** edit add***
I’m not knocking any setups I use Ethernet when and where ever I can. I run Unifi ap’s and my WiiM Mini’s just work. No glitches
 
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