Proposal: New SINAD Ranking Design (Histogram)

[Tks]

That's not even a challenge then since THD+N at some random frequency is as meaningless of a metric as it gets, what information does 120 SINAD vs 100 SINAD give me? Only that both are a few orders of magnitude past what is needed for music reproduction in domestic setting in a normal (noisy) room. For an amplifier give me FR, Power, output impedance and its infinitely more useful.

For headphone amps thd+n at 4V output is even funnier since you will go deaf very quickly if this is how you listen.

Feel free to to create any equation that includes more metrics than just thd+n to calculate "points" and it would be better.

Is this a joke? You're telling me to do what I asked SINAD naysayers to do? You want me to come up with a solution to something I don't find a problem with?

Also, we get 50mV metrics, would you prefer that be the headliner? 50mV for speaker amps and all that?

Such a simple metric does not exist and never can exist. You simply cannot reduce a complex multifacetted behavior into a simple scalar number, even under unrealistically benign lab bench conditions.

I do not understand why people feel a need for a condensed one-dimensional metric nor do I undertstand what they would need it for. What other items in your life do you buy based on such overly reduced simple ratings?

IMHO, current 1kHz SINAD only has two useful regions of information one can infer from the number:
- so low that chances are high the device is flawed elsewhere also that in total it may not be audibly transparent even if that SINAD alone might still be transparent
- so high that chances are very low the device is flawed elsewhere to be not audibly transparent in spite of the high SINAD
For the whole range in between the correlation between SINAD and transparency is low and unreliable.

And, one thing is paramount here: The SINAD value is only applicable for the exact same and benign(!) operating conditions that were used for the test which more often than not are not what you are going to have in practice.

Oh, it can't exist? Well then great, SINAD it is, since it's the closest and most informative we have. Keep in mind, I asked for something more informative, I'm not asking for a reduction of complexity in totality, just something better is all yet that is more informative. So keep mindful that I'm not being strawmanned here.

As for not understanding why people feel the need for condensed metrics.. Surly you're not this oblivious to basic human psychology as observed in virtually every facet of life. If something can be more easily grasped while being more informative, you'd literally have to be insane, or a researcher, to not opt for this sort of information gathering. Who would want a complication of things?

Also, no one is claiming anyone is buying items based on these or any other simple ratings, those that do are truly ignorant due to a lack of baseline education. Likewise a SINAD score isn't the only facet to a review, so I'm not sure why this question is even being posed. No one that I have ever seen is reviewing a device and only posts a SINAD score. What SINAD does, is becomes a very forward facing brief indication on why you should or should not pay attention and then perhaps see further things about said product that may interest you. Because for me, there's NOTHING about a device I would care about considering for purchase if said device had something like 10db SINAD, it could literally be the most DSP, I/O, aesthetics, etc.. None of it would be able to get over the hurdle of the information provided to me when I see a 10dB SINAD measurement.

I don't understand what you folks actually want here. Some say get rid of SINAD (yet come up empty for a substitute as informative). Some (like you) say SINAD @ 1kHz is not very useful, yet all reviews contain more metrics than simply that.

You also somehow grasp and don't grasp the ordeal occurring here. You say things like SINAD being useful as a gauge when for instance SINAD is a high number, there's far lower chance a device has some audible issue. What if I told you that is the primary function of SINAD, that is in tandem with also serving folks just coming into the audio hobby, since those folks are not going to bother learning about every single other metric under the sun currently deployed in the industry..

What are you people going to do now if Amir states those are the primary goals with the way he's using SINAD?

One last thing, did you honestly ask me what other products do people mostly look at a singular metric when considering a product? I can't tell if this is serious because the list is staggeringly long that I feel I'm being trolled right now. Obviously no one buys something truly on a singular metric if you're being pedantic though (like someone dieting for instance isn't going to consider consuming ANYTHING EVERYTHING under a certain calorie count, since that would mean the person would be ready to consume feces).

EDIT: Typo's here and there, and some elaboration.