Properly integrating sub in existing system

[groovybassist]

I’m interested in feedback/suggestions for properly integrating a sub into my existing system (if possible). By “properly integrating” I mean relieving my LS50 Metas of some bass frequencies and relying on the sub to provide these frequencies. I’m not interested in earth-shaking bass - I’m more interested in providing a little more bass foundation for the Metas. My knowledge of subs, crossovers, etc. is very limited, hence my request for input.

My system is comprised of the following:

Matrix Audio Element X (used as Roon endpoint)
Neurochrome Modulus-286 Stereo Amp
LS50 Metas

As you can see, this is a very simple system comprised of high-performing individual components. Given the low noise/low distortion nature of the system, I’d like any components added to perform similarly and not compromise overall system performance. Feel free to make any suggestions you think fit the use case, but I’m most interested in suggestions that don’t involve the “sell everything and start over” perspective. Thanks in advance for any suggestions y’all have!

 

[alex-z]

To properly integrate a subwoofer you need a high-pass filter on the speakers. Unfortunately your DAC/streamer lacks this feature, and it also lacks digital audio output. This means using an external solution with an additional analogue to digital conversion step, such as miniDSP 2x4HD.

My recommendation would be to sell the Matrix Audio Element X and switch to a Minidsp SHD.

Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

This is an update to the review of minidsp SHD that I did a couple of years ago. My tests have evolved since then and company has stated that they fixed a few issues I found in that test. The SHD costs US $1,195 and includes a USB DAC, streaming engine (based on Volumio) and of course, DSP...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If you have the budget I would also recommend going with dual subs. This gives you much smoother in-room response because the room modes have less influence.

 

[DonH56]

Alternatively pick up a crossover to use between the source and power amplifier, e.g. a little miniDSP box or something like a dbx 223 or similar.

 

[Chrispy]

Is this the amp thingie ? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-neurochrome-modulus-286-amp.6443/

Why do you think this gear is particularly friendly to incorporated a sub/subs?

 

[groovybassist]

Is this the amp thingie ? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-neurochrome-modulus-286-amp.6443/

Why do you think this gear is particularly friendly to incorporated a sub/subs?

Appreciate the input @alex-z and @DonH56.

@Chrispy - to answer your questions, my Modulus-286 is a variant of the amp you noted, but in a larger case. It was built by @tomchr and likely doesn’t suffer any of the minor performance issues caused by packing everything into the smaller case. I’m not implying this gear is any more or less friendly to integrating subs than any other gear. I happen to like the high engineering level, build quality and sound of these components, which is why my preference is to keep them in my system if possible.

 

[Chrispy]

Appreciate the input @alex-z and @DonH56.

@Chrispy - to answer your questions, my Modulus-286 is a variant of the amp you noted, but in a larger case. It was built by @tomchr and likely doesn’t suffer any of the minor performance issues caused by packing everything into the smaller case. I’m not implying this gear is any more or less friendly to integrating subs than any other gear. I happen to like the high engineering level, build quality and sound of these components, which is why my preference is to keep them in my system if possible.

Still, high engineering standards incorporate what bass management features? Not sure what you mean....case size is a different subject as well for the most part.

 

[Eetu]

Still, high engineering standards incorporate what bass management features? Not sure what you mean....case size is a different subject as well for the most part.

I don't think he ever claimed that the amp had bass management or that it was well suited to integrate subs with. Just that it was a power amp with excellent performance and he wants to continue using it, if possible.

For the simplest setup, I would replace the Matrix with a MiniDSP SHD. Should work nicely as a Roon end-point too.

 

[groovybassist]

I don't think he ever claimed that the amp had bass management or that it was well suited to integrate subs with. Just that it was a power amp with excellent performance and he wants to continue using it, if possible.

For the simplest setup, I would replace the Matrix with a MiniDSP SHD. Should work nicely as a Roon end-point too.

Thanks @Eetu - couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[abdo123]

once you have four outputs for a 2.2 setup with adjustable high and lowpass filters check out this thread (In particular the process that i went through with the user).

Speaker placement and subwoofer integration for a small living room using MiniDSP SHD + REW

Hey everyone! First, I want to give a big thanks to everyone for helping me get this far-- there's an overwhelming amount of info online for integrating subs into a 2.2 system, both in general knowledge and program interface navigation for testing. The below is what I've learned through the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MeZoX]

if you don't need high volumes you can buy a studio sub , it normally comes with HPF and LPF integrated , I use the KRK10s2 subwoofer and its really good for the price

 

[groovybassist]

Thanks @abdo123 and @MeZoX

 

[Ron Texas]

Here is a cheap way to do it without selling anything. The Neurochrome amp has a high sensitivity which will allow it to run off the rca outputs of the Matrix Audio. Get a pair of Harrison Labs passive high pass filters, either 100 or 150 hz and use RCA cables. Make sure the subs you buy have a low latency like Rythmik, 3ms. The DSP controlled subs from SVS have a high latency, 6ms. Keep your subs no further away from your LP than the mains.

https://hlabs.com/

If you go the route of using a sub with a built in high pass it may not have balanced connections either and might be limited to 80hz.

 

[MeZoX]

If you go the route of using a sub with a built in high pass it may not have balanced connections either and might be limited to 80hz.

The KRK HPF has 4 settings 60-90Hz , I have it set to 60Hz

 

[Ron Texas]

The KRK HPF has 4 settings 60-90Hz , I have it set to 60Hz

90 hz might be enough, but I found with my LS50's 100 worked the best and that's 4th order. Does the KRK have balanced connections?

 

[MeZoX]

90 hz might be enough, but I found with my LS50's 100 worked the best and that's 4th order. Does the KRK have balanced connections?

yes its a studio sub , balanced connections is basic in that market , it also has optional RCA

I did a lot of testing and found out the most satisfying results are at 60Hz , my monitors are the krk8g4

 

[Ron Texas]

yes its a studio sub , balanced connections is basic in that market , it also has optional RCA

I did a lot of testing and found out the most satisfying results are at 60Hz , my monitors are the krk8g4

The mid/low driver on LS50's (old and meta) needs a higher crossover than 60. It's a wimp compared to your 8" KRK's.

 

[MeZoX]

The mid/low driver on LS50's (old and meta) needs a higher crossover than 60. It's a wimp compared to your 8" KRK's.

the krk's actually sound very good considering my room is terrible and I have 55 inch TV between them so I suspect that is respinsible for alot of the dips that show on the graph
My only gripe with the monitors is the hiss that comes of the tweeter , like a faint raining sound , will easily be drowned by an AC or when music plays , I actually only noticed it when winter came and stopped using my AC

I would have went with the ls50 + a subwoofer if i weren't on a budget tbh , because i know it will cost me extra for amps

 

[MeZoX]

this is not a real review but a good overview of its features and mentions crossover abilities

KRK 10s Review - Bring Audible Low End to Your Studio - Audio Egghead

Are you thinking of buying KRK 10s? or just bought one? Then, read our detailed review here, learn about these KRK 10s and know whether it is a wise purchase.

www.audioegghead.com

 

[groovybassist]

@Ron Texas - my Mod-286 is balanced input only.

The idea of running through the high pass filter on a sub is certainly simple. My concern with this approach is the Mod-286 noise floor is so low, it will end up amplifying the higher noise floor in the sub’s HPF if that circuit isn’t really clean.

I know the Rythmik F12 has an optional high pass and Dynaudio has a professional series sub with this also. Will look at other studio options as well. Thanks.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Ron Texas - my Mod-286 is balanced input only.

The idea of running through the high pass filter on a sub is certainly simple. My concern with this approach is the Mod-286 noise floor is so low, it will end up amplifying the higher noise floor in the sub’s HPF if that circuit isn’t really clean.

I know the Rythmik F12 has an optional high pass and Dynaudio has a professional series sub with this also. Will look at other studio options as well. Thanks.

My understanding is Rythmik subs have no DSP. Honestly, I have the non-Meta LS50's and I use the DSP built into a Crown XLS 1502 for a high pass. I use the built-in low pass in my L12's. The Crown doesn't measure that well and the setup seems more cobbled together than audiophile, but it sounds great. The optional HPF on a F12 is 80hz, 2nd order. I prefer 100 4th order in order to maximize dynamic range. I doubt there is a noise problem. The F12 HPF is probably passive. Call the company up and ask them. Or send an email.