Processors

[KellenVancouver]

First off, wishing a Merry and Healthy Christmas Holiday to all ASR.

Second, I have a question about audio processors. I know that I am opening up my naïveté to the ASR universe, and apologies in advance if I am annoying the knowledgeable, but I am here to learn so will just deal with it. I'm not relating to processors and all the marketing leaves me somewhat confused. Marketed as "critical to the overall performance and sound quality of your system," I'm trying to get a grip on exactly what it is that makes a processor so audio critical. Processors are also marketed for high-end car audio systems ("drastic sound quality Improvements"). ASR reviews seem more focused on processors for AV functionality, not just audio. So what's the deal? Is a processor truly a "need" for someone keen on audio improvement, is it closer to "fluff," or is it just a newer name for other electronics or combinations thereof?

 

[ZolaIII]

@KellenVancouver any DSP is only as good as you can control it for the purpose we get pined back to X86 and it's legacy.
There are DSP's more suitable for development but know neither ARM board with mainline linux support nor power enough one with access and documentation on general purpose hardware (AMD GPU's).
DAV plugin's and AVS are very long story.
Best regards.

 

[Killingbeans]

or is it just a newer name for other electronics or combinations thereof?

I might be wrong, but as far as I can tell, it's just an umbrella term for all DSP solutions that are stuffed into a box.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So what's the deal? Is a processor truly a "need" for someone keen on audio improvement, is it closer to "fluff," or is it just a newer name for other electronics or combinations thereof?

The word "processor" is applied to all sorts of devices ranging in complexity from a "chip" to a DAC to an A/V processor or, even, a piece of software. It is a pretty generic term. So, what are you interested in and in what context?

 

[KellenVancouver]

The word "processor" is applied to all sorts of devices ranging in complexity from a "chip" to a DAC to an A/V processor or, even, a piece of software. It is a pretty generic term. So, what are you interested in and in what context?

Ha! That's a wide umbrellla indeed -- would seem to explain part of the confusion, though it seems to be a more specific "category" when manufacturers market processors as electronics separate from preamps, DACs, etc. I'm not looking for a specific item, just trying to better understand what a processor is (or supposed to be), albeit from more of an audio perspective.

 

[Doodski]

Ha! That's a wide umbrellla indeed -- would seem to explain part of the confusion, though it seems to be a more specific "category" when manufacturers market processors as electronics separate from preamps, DACs, etc. I'm not looking for a specific item, just trying to better understand what a processor is (or supposed to be), albeit from more of an audio perspective.

There are different kinds of processors.

Examples:
DSP - digital signal processor.
CPU - central processing unit.
- microcontroller
- microprocessor
- embedded processor
- media processor.

As a processor can be integrated in a package with other stuff the term processor has become a catch all term.

 

[ZolaIII]

@KellenVancouver a thing with which you do processing done in this case digital audio signal. Today general purpose application core's have 64 bit FPU and SIMD engine (128, 256 or 512 bit one). You won't ever need more than 64 bit FP (not even EQ-ing to death) but how much channels in real time you might need is other pair of slippers. Why on earth would you need 64 bit FP when best DAC doesn't clear more than 21 bit integer SINAD? For smoothing what ever you bring in to original signal. For storage or saving and simple decoding you don't need more than 21 bit (rounded to 24 bits) integer.

 

[KellenVancouver]

There are different kinds of processors.

Examples:
DSP - digital signal processor.
CPU - central processing unit.
- microcontroller
- microprocessor
- embedded processor
- media processor.

As a processor can be integrated in a package with other stuff the term processor has become a catch all term.

So hopefully not being a pain in the side here, but if Amir conducts a performance review for a "processor" does it get categorized as a processor or should it be included under one of those other categories?

 

[TimW]

So hopefully not being a pain in the side here, but if Amir conducts a performance review for a "processor" does it get categorized as a processor or should it be included under one of those other categories?

What are you talking about? I have never seen Amir refer to any product as a processor other than AV Processors.

 

[KellenVancouver]

What are you talking about? I have never seen Amir refer to any product as a processor other than AV Processors.

I guess that answers the question. Just looked at Amir's Review Index and it doesn't include either "processor" or "av processor."

 

[Doodski]

So hopefully not being a pain in the side here, but if Amir conducts a performance review for a "processor" does it get categorized as a processor or should it be included under one of those other categories?

Correctly stated it should be under one of the subcategories. The thing about it is that there are so many kinds of processors that people just say processor now. It has become a colloquialism of sorts.

 

[Beershaun]

I am inferring from your posts that the type of processor you are referring to is a Digital Signal Processor or DSP. This is used in the digital part of the audio chain to make changes to data to manipulate things like audio delay for each speaker, volume level for each speaker, crossover frequency for each speaker, and frequency response changes for each speaker.

Doing this digitally allows you to correct for speaker placement, room vibrations and reflections, speaker tonality flaws etc. It's a very important an powerful tool to improve sound quality.

MinDSP is the go to device around here for a dedicated DSP.

 

[ZolaIII]

So hopefully not being a pain in the side here, but if Amir conducts a performance review for a "processor" does it get categorized as a processor or should it be included under one of those other categories?

It's categoriesed as a type of equipment (DAC, amp, Interface, mixer with some DSP functions or additional fixed point ASIC or FPGA with property whatever). Amir usually just try if such make a degradation to the original direct line and doesn't really play with it (formats nor processing). Again solution (hardware) is only as good as you can control it (software).

 

[somebodyelse]

MinDSP is the go to device around here for a dedicated DSP.

And for less dedicated but more flexible DSP there's a whole thread of software options.

 

[escksu]

DSP would fall under the category of ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuits).

They are very critical to performance. Bascially they are a specialised processor that takes data from your source (CD, SSD, streaming etc... anything) and converts it into a signal that your DAC can understand, then your DAC is able to convert this into analogue signal for your amp or preamp.

So, any form of digital modification to the audio aignal is all done via the DSP. Of course, DSP is only as good as its software/firmware. Software will tell the hardware what to do. So, without good software, the best DSPs are pretty useless. Btw, the software is not what you normally see in computers. They are alot smaller (hence firmware) which are linux or proprietary.

If you are wondering why DSP and not CPUs, CPUs are general purpose processors meant to do a wide range of tasks. ASICs are designed and built specifically for a certain purpose. ITs samller, cheaper and uses far less power. Its sometimes faster as well. The downside is that they can only do what they are designed for (not a big deal).

 

[Doodski]

DSP would fall under the category of ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuits).

They are very critical to performance. Bascially they are a specialised processor that takes data from your source (CD, SSD, streaming etc... anything) and converts it into a signal that your DAC can understand, then your DAC is able to convert this into analogue signal for your amp or preamp.

So, any form of digital modification to the audio aignal is all done via the DSP. Of course, DSP is only as good as its software/firmware. Software will tell the hardware what to do. So, without good software, the best DSPs are pretty useless. Btw, the software is not what you normally see in computers. They are alot smaller (hence firmware) which are linux or proprietary.

If you are wondering why DSP and not CPUs, CPUs are general purpose processors meant to do a wide range of tasks. ASICs are designed and built specifically for a certain purpose. ITs samller, cheaper and uses far less power. Its sometimes faster as well. The downside is that they can only do what they are designed for (not a big deal).

Thank you for that. I know I replaced lotsa DSP's, CPU's, display drivers and VFT displays with them. Even included the volume ICs and the phase lock loop voltage alignment IC's on cassette deck head assemblies. The digital stuff for a some years was a money maker.