Processor and Fosi V3 advice

[kbshearer]

Hello! Long time listener, first time caller. I've been reading these forums for a while, and have very much appreciated the very well informed comments and detailed measurements and reviews. I have a couple of subjective questions regarding some audio gear and I thought I'd throw it out here. I'm sure some people here have some thoughts. Please forgive the somewhat lengthy preamble.

So one thing...I've been a recording engineer my entire life and I am used to listening for subtle details in audio. I have not however, been indulging in high end home audio equipment. My home setup has always been decent, but not ultra high end.

I years ago I had a Yamaha RX-V1 AV receiver that I actually thought sounded pretty good. The detail in the amp section was a step up from what I had previously. I absolutely listen to music and want great fidelity, but that receiver was pre-HDMI, so I wanted to move on. I had purchased a used Yamaha RX-a2080 used for a hideously good deal, so I wasn't stressing too much if it wasn't great. Well...I've had it for a while now and it hasn't wowed me. It seems like a step down sonically from the ancient RX-V1. It doesn't seem to have the detail and transient response...but that's a completely unscientific opinion. Then I found the review here on the related RX-a1080 and perhaps gained some understanding as to why.

Next piece of the puzzle: I needed to get another subwoofer amp. Again, finding a glowing review here on the Fosi V3 mono, I purchased that as a replacement. So...I want solid performance, but I am perhaps not looking for a 600 watt sub amp....I believe this will do me just fine. (Caller, is there a question in our future?) Okay...here it is:

#1-Since the Fosi V3 Mono seems to be a great performance/price ratio, I was thinking about perhaps building a 5.1 system with these amps. I don't think I need more power than that. I assume that these amps will perform better that the built-in Yamaha amps? I know that high end amps will beat the Fosi but I probably am not going to spend $5k+ on amps. And it seems like the Emotiva stuff may not be the greatest with performance. I also know, at least in my world of studio equipment, there are times when equipment that specs lower can subjectively sound more interesting or engaging. So again, I understand that I am asking a wildly subjective question here...but do you think that building a system with Fosi V3 monos would be preferable sonically to most AV receivers? Any thoughts on how the V3 monos actually sound? (I haven't used my single channel on anything other than a sub)

#2-Processors....I have no idea here. I've only had receivers. 5.1 system is all I need. I don't need all of the endless features. I actually like setting up my own crossover point and eqs and all of that, so the auto setup stuff isn't as important to me. I need HDMI inputs and decent video quality, such as the ability to pass Dolby Vision. I would like XLR outs to take advantage of the XLR inputs on the Fosi (if that's what I end up doing, since it bypasses one of the 5532s and is a high level.) Any thoughts? Again, ideally, I'd like to not spend $5k on a processor.

I've done some research on all of this but just was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. I truly appreciate any input. I am far from a newbie when it comes to audio equipment and listening to nuance and detail...but I am a newbie to home audio separate components.

Thank you all!

Kirt

 

[kemmler3D]

I assume that these amps will perform better that the built-in Yamaha amps?

Probably yes, as a rule you get a little better noise and distortion from stand-alone amps vs. receiver channels. But:

do you think that building a system with Fosi V3 monos would be preferable sonically to most AV receivers? Any thoughts on how the V3 monos actually sound? (I haven't used my single channel on anything other than a sub)

Strictly speaking I would answer "no" to this. I have some Fosi amps and to my ear they sound just peachy - same as any other competent amp. Since you've been reading the site for a while you won't be surprised that I'll say this: In general amps with competent performance like this don't have an identifiable sound... if you don't believe me, go looking for blind tests where people can even tell them apart. (hint: virtually none exist.)


Processors inside your budget exist (I think this counts? https://summithifiusa.com/products/at-500-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-8k-16-channels-processor-ship-now) but I can't say how the analog performance will be.

I don't have any HT gear so I don't have much advice on that point. I would say that people really seem to like Dirac ART and other room correction systems built into various receivers and processors, and I'd also highly recommend having room correction in whatever unit you end up with.

And welcome to ASR!

 

[kbshearer]

First of all, THANK YOU so much for your detailed reply! And that's exactly what I was looking for...I didn't know about the AT-500. That looks exactly like the range of processors I might be looking for.

Interesting about the amps...I have hear some sonic differences in PA and studio amps...And as I said, the Yamaha stuff hasn't faired well in measurements on this forum. The Fosi seems possibly like a decent middle ground...As I said, it seems like it's either mediocre multi-channel amps or expensive mono blocks.

Again, thank you so much for your comments!

Kirt

 

[kemmler3D]

Again, thank you so much for your comments!

Of course, you are welcome!

Interesting about the amps...I have hear some sonic differences in PA and studio amps

It's not that no two amps exist where you can hear differences between them. PA amps in particular tend to have high-enough noise that you might be able to hear it in a quiet setting. Some amps might be load dependent and therefore have a different net frequency response. But amps that aren't load-dependent, don't have tons of noise or distortion (i.e. SINAD >80 or maybe even a bit less) and aren't overdriven, tend to sound exactly the same in practice.

You can also easily convince yourself (even inadvertently) that two amps sound different in casual testing. These heard-but-illusory differences tend to be very convincing, but (not so) mysteriously disappear in a proper blind test.

People like to say amps are more open and airy sounding, or warmer, or clearer, or whatever. But when you do the measurements none of these differences show up. The reply is always that measurements are inadequate to capture what they hear, but null tests don't pick it up either, so...

I look at it like this. We know that placebo effect affects everyone with a brain connected to the ears. It's not a matter of weak will, low intellect, or a skill issue, it's the human condition.

So when someone says they hear a difference that shouldn't be there, what's more likely? They easily picked up an audio phenomenon unknown to science via casual listening? OR - they've been caught up in the same psychological phenomenon that affects every human on the planet? Hmm...

 

[peng]

Fosi Mono amps will not have its own “sound”, it will just do its job amplifying. Its gain is relatively low so depending on your listening habit, distance, speaker sensitivity, you may or may not need to drive it with a preamp/processor that can output 4 V or higher cleanly.

 

[kbshearer]

It's looks like the AT-500 processor that kemmler3d referenced does indeed have a 4v output. And my speakers are fairly good sensitivity listed as 100db at 1watt/1meter.

I've seen things like dampening factor, transient response, square wave performance, and even the power supply affect the sound of an amp. Again, in the pro world, anytime I've swapped out to a PowerSoft amp whatever I'm listening to sounds better than other options, usually. I've heard amps deliver detail much better than others...but I do understand that once you get to a certain level of performance, it may not have a discernible impact. I was just trying to understand if the Fosi gets to that level in a way that perhaps my Yamaha 2080 doesn't.

Thanks again for all of your input!

Kirt

 

[peng]

It's looks like the AT-500 processor that kemmler3d referenced does indeed have a 4v output. And my speakers are fairly good sensitivity listed as 100db at 1watt/1meter.

I've seen things like dampening factor, transient response, square wave performance, and even the power supply affect the sound of an amp. Again, in the pro world, anytime I've swapped out to a PowerSoft amp whatever I'm listening to sounds better than other options, usually. I've heard amps deliver detail much better than others...but I do understand that once you get to a certain level of performance, it may not have a discernible impact. I was just trying to understand if the Fosi gets to that level in a way that perhaps my Yamaha 2080 doesn't.

Thanks again for all of your input!

Kirt

It might, but the differences would likely be subtle, depending on the use conditions.

 

[jome]

Running a avm70 paired with 11 Fosi v3 mono, 48V 5A.
Cleared out a lot of rackspace from big AB amps.
It sounds great, I still have the old gear but never once had the comparison itch.

 

[voodooless]

11 Fosi v3 mono, 48V 5A.

I'd love to see that stash of amps! How do you handle the heat from all the PSUs?

 

[kbshearer]

This is what I've been thinking to do...although I'm only going to set up 5.1. I'm using a V3 mono for a sub right now running in 4 ohms....but I'm considering doing the rest with mono V3s. I've sketched out a 3u rack to house everything with XLR connectors and so forth on the back. It seems that pricewise it would be comparable to the BAS series Emotiva and I'm guessing possible perform better. Aside from the inconvenience of having all the little boxes, it might be a good solution. I would do forced air cooling.

 

[Talisman]

This is what I've been thinking to do...although I'm only going to set up 5.1. I'm using a V3 mono for a sub right now running in 4 ohms....but I'm considering doing the rest with mono V3s. I've sketched out a 3u rack to house everything with XLR connectors and so forth on the back. It seems that pricewise it would be comparable to the BAS series Emotiva and I'm guessing possible perform better. Aside from the inconvenience of having all the little boxes, it might be a good solution. I would do forced air cooling.

I don't understand why you'd use a V3 mono for a subwoofer. It doesn't have the power normally required for a subwoofer, and like all Class D amps, it tends to have almost no headroom.
I'd prefer a simple, high-powered professional amplifier, which isn't much more expensive but is more suitable for the job.

 

[kbshearer]

Well it certainly isn't my ultimate sub amp. I was in need of a replacement so I thought I'd try it out. It actually measures 192 watts at 4 ohms, which for now is enough for me in a home situation. I don't know of anything that delivers that power (which I get isn't 600 watts) that is anywhere near that price. I get headroom....and why that is important. I can listen loud, but for me, I don't think I'll be needing more than that right now. I certainly could change it out later...but as I said, I wanted to see what this amp could do.

 

[kbshearer]

Follow up....I am curious about any examples of a high powered professional amp that isn't much more expensive.

Thank you,

 

[Talisman]

Behringer A800

 

[kbshearer]

FYI the A800 measures a max power of 241 watts at 4 ohms and 142 watts at 8 ohms...so it's not hugely more powerful.

 

[Talisman]

You are not considering the headroom which in a subwoofer amplifier is a great ally for peak demands and which brings it to over 300 watts.

I see it in Italy for 180 euros on Amazon, but it is a stereo power amplifier, with one of these you can drive two subwoofers, about 90 euros per power amplifier, more power, great thermal stability, more headroom and acoustically indistinguishable performance from the Fosi for this type of use.

 

[kbshearer]

I'm very glad you are happy with your Behringer.

I do not wish to continue to go back and forth with you on this. I came here for a different conversation, which I have had with others.

Thank you.

 

[Talisman]

I don't have this amp and I was just answering your question. Greetings

 

[jome]

I'd love to see that stash of amps! How do you handle the heat from all the PSUs?

Not a problem for my setup, small room, I guess large room that need higher output can be a problem?
Note also that I only have XLR feeding everything and actually running Fosi in Auto mode for now.

I have a friend that used RCA and complained about very hot amps.
I think lot of noise in the system, also in Auto mode, drove the amps with low level constantly, in a slightly warm room.

 

[jome]

This is what I've been thinking to do...although I'm only going to set up 5.1. I'm using a V3 mono for a sub right now running in 4 ohms....but I'm considering doing the rest with mono V3s. I've sketched out a 3u rack to house everything with XLR connectors and so forth on the back. It seems that pricewise it would be comparable to the BAS series Emotiva and I'm guessing possible perform better. Aside from the inconvenience of having all the little boxes, it might be a good solution. I would do forced air cooling.

The Fosi v3 mono will not drive even a 12” subwoofer. A friend had one Fosi each, double 12” for a while with a new subs,didn’t know what to expect.
After about 4weeks he replaced them with a crown xls 2502 and was totally blown away with the difference in impact and low level performance.

For myself I recently replaced my 2502 with a hypex dual mono NC1200. That was a step up in immersion and I guess clarity if one can use that word in sub Hz.
In HIFI wording, it gave sub sounds ”isolation” in a new way, there are space around the impacts.