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Problem with Genelec 8020D volume level

You can see my comment regarding headphone and speaker volumes with my 8030Cs in the 8030C review thread. I'm including a quote at the bottom of this post.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...8030c-studio-monitor-review.14795/post-701547

I am using a different DAC/amp/preamp setup than you, but I was able to get my headphones and speakers at kind of a similar volume level. I briefly had an 8020D for a week before upsizing to the 8030Cs and I think a similar volume result could be achieved. The JDS El Amp II preamp output ranges from 0-2.0VRMS (that's what JDS told me). When I was listening to Tidal earlier today, I probably had my preamp volume knob between 9 to 11pm. I think I have volume normalization turned on in Tidal, but regardless, some recordings just seem quieter, and some songs are nice when the volume is cranked up.

I agree with some of the other posts that getting a comparable volume match from one device with a combo headphone amp and preamp out might be hard to do, although I'd think it would be possible if you can adjust the sensitivity on the powered monitors and you use the same pair of headphones on a regular basis. Fortunately the -6db to +6db range on the Genelec 80X0 series works with my preamp setup. I'm happy enough only having to turn up the knob from 9 to 11pm for most of my listening needs. When I briefly had a pair of Focal Alpha 50's prior to getting the Genelecs, I could barely move my preamp volume knob without getting to very high levels. That was a dealbreaker. The Genelecs do have a limited sensitivity adjustment range compared to some other monitors (I'm not sure if there is a good reason for that), but as I mentioned, it's just enough range for me. It would definitely be cool to have more range though. The white "home" series of the 80X0 have a different input sensitivity via the RCA inputs.

I'm guessing you won't want to change your other system components, but if you don't care about getting a DAC with dual outputs, you can get a JDS Element II and have a good DAC and great headphone amp, all in one box with a great volume knob. Another thing I like about the Element II or El Amp II is that you have to hold a button on the back to switch between preamp or headphone mode. I greatly prefer that than units that play the headphones when headphones are plugged in, and require the headphone to be disconnected to use the speakers. That said, there's also an argument for getting something like a Motu M2/M4 or other unit designed for use with monitors.

Here's the relevant part of the post I mentioned:

"With my JDS El Amp II and the input sensitivity on the 8030Cs set to I believe +6DB, I think 9 or 10 on the El Amp volume control has me at jamming levels. The amount of volume control I have seems granular enough to me. It's also nice because the SPL from the speakers at that volume control level is similar to how loud my HD650s would sound if I had them plugged into the JDS. That means I don't have to think about making sure the volume isn't too loud if I'm alternating between headphones or my speakers. I usually use my Bottlehead for headphone use, but not always."
 
I have two of these, one in each of two separate systems - one of which is upstream of a pair of Genelec 8020D's - neither show any discernable problems. Same manufacturer as the Little Bear, I think?:

Nobsound High Precision Passive Preamp Volume Controller VOL Control:

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GRTLWYL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_M653G69J9T0Y8QKJQ4FA?psc=1

Looks like they make a version with balanced inputs & outputs which might be a better match for the Genelecs (depending on your other gear).

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Ful...eywords=Nobsound+Preamp&qid=1615722190&sr=8-5
 
I had the same problem when I got my 8030C back half a year ago. Ended up my solution was to buy a really nice khozmo preamp which sends the attenuated signal directly to the Genelecs and the other output into my headphone amp. With the high attenuation in the preamp side I actually allowed the headamp into higher volume and gets better channel balance
 
You can see my comment regarding headphone and speaker volumes with my 8030Cs in the 8030C review thread. I'm including a quote at the bottom of this post.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...8030c-studio-monitor-review.14795/post-701547

I am using a different DAC/amp/preamp setup than you, but I was able to get my headphones and speakers at kind of a similar volume level. I briefly had an 8020D for a week before upsizing to the 8030Cs and I think a similar volume result could be achieved. The JDS El Amp II preamp output ranges from 0-2.0VRMS (that's what JDS told me). When I was listening to Tidal earlier today, I probably had my preamp volume knob between 9 to 11pm. I think I have volume normalization turned on in Tidal, but regardless, some recordings just seem quieter, and some songs are nice when the volume is cranked up.

May I ask, why did you upgrade 8020D to 8030C? I'm considering the same.
I've been listening to the 8020Ds for a couple of days now and I like them a lot. The only thing that is missing a little bit is the deep low end. I listen mostly to classical music and even though it's not bass heavy usually, sometimes the deep bass notes are very important to the emotional impact of the music. Neumann KH80 seems to go a little lower than the 8020D, but I much prefer the look (other than the LED, for which I have a much better redesign) and the solid feel of the Genelec. Also, I feel sense of pride to have a top quality speaker from my home country on my desk.
 
May I ask, why did you upgrade 8020D to 8030C? I'm considering the same.
I've been listening to the 8020Ds for a couple of days now and I like them a lot. The only thing that is missing a little bit is the deep low end. I listen mostly to classical music and even though it's not bass heavy usually, sometimes the deep bass notes are very important to the emotional impact of the music. Neumann KH80 seems to go a little lower than the 8020D, but I much prefer the look (other than the LED, for which I have a much better redesign) and the solid feel of the Genelec. Also, I feel sense of pride to have a top quality speaker from my home country on my desk.

Please see my post here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...8030c-studio-monitor-review.14795/post-700988

I'm not sure if the bass difference from the 8020 to the 8030 is substantial or not, but there is a difference. I think many around here will say if you are concerned about bass you'll want a sub with either model. I bought the 8030s hoping I could get away without a sub (or be closer to getting away without one), and I'm still deciding whether or not to get one.
 
No, you're not the only one tripping over this issue. An input level trim of only 12 dB is not uncommon in older active monitors in particular; one user here found the range provided by his Behringer 2031As inadequate as well, and I think Mackie HR824 are the same. (The only thing potentially even worse is the Focals with a fixed level.)
Full Ack.
An input sensitivity adjustment of +6 dBu to -6 dBu for 100 dB SPL @ 1 m is standard for Genelec monitors, all the way from the 8x20 up to the 8x50 and 1032.
[..]
The good folks at Genelec could really do with a reevaluation of their input sensitivity settings.
Well, my 8020A's have a volume control on the front which goes down to zero. I've no clue why they changed this in later revisions.
 
Full Ack.

Well, my 8020A's have a volume control on the front which goes down to zero. I've no clue why they changed this in later revisions.
I believe it's level matching, for potentiometer it's extremely difficult to have good tracking between units, so the old one could easily have issues balancing the stereo image, it's much easier for the 12dB range one they use now to be calibrated in the marked positions with min and max value being very precise, it's always easier to rely on external volume control using digital or a stereo/multi channel potentiometer or stepped attenuator in a preamp unit as that usually matches the channels in each unit they made, so Genelec don't need to calibrate thousands of pots to be within a tight tolerance
 
I believe it's level matching, for potentiometer it's extremely difficult to have good tracking between units, so the old one could easily have issues balancing the stereo image, it's much easier for the 12dB range one they use now to be calibrated in the marked positions with min and max value being very precise, it's always easier to rely on external volume control using digital or a stereo/multi channel potentiometer or stepped attenuator in a preamp unit as that usually matches the channels in each unit they made, so Genelec don't need to calibrate thousands of pots to be within a tight tolerance

They won't be calibrating thousands of trimpots anyway. If they were mine, I'd pull them apart and put in a proper pot that took the input right down to zero.
 
They won't be calibrating thousands of trimpots anyway. If they were mine, I'd pull them apart and put in a proper pot that took the input right down to zero.
I mean for Genelec side if they want to maintain the trip pot deviation as their FR deviation a full scale trim pot will be very difficult, where most ppl likely just set the knob to same position and assume the variation will be minimal (<0.5db), as such letting one set the sensitivity at the back and let the dac or amp do the volume control seems more logical
 
I’m using a pair of 4020B and a Focusrite Solo with my laptop, and I have no issues when switching from headphones to monitors.
The 4000 series is the installation range. The only difference is supposed to be the Phoenix connectors vs XLR. The little pots at the back worked perfectly in my case.
 
I mean for Genelec side if they want to maintain the trip pot deviation as their FR deviation a full scale trim pot will be very difficult, where most ppl likely just set the knob to same position and assume the variation will be minimal (<0.5db), as such letting one set the sensitivity at the back and let the dac or amp do the volume control seems more logical

Genelec was just being pig-headed and not considering how people actually use their powered speakers. They are a baby speaker in the range, most likely used with a preamp/mixer/interface front end with semi-domestic levels and which may or may not have individual output level controls.

As such, plenty of people are having the same problem as the OP. Having a front panel control that goes from zero up (as they did in some other models) is way more logical and usable. There's no need to defend their balls-up.

I have a ton of power amps, all have proper level controls- all go from zero up- these are essentially a power amp in a speaker (plus some other junk).
 
Genelec was just being pig-headed and not considering how people actually use their powered speakers. They are a baby speaker in the range, most likely used with a preamp/mixer/interface front end with semi-domestic levels and which may or may not have individual output level controls.

As such, plenty of people are having the same problem as the OP. Having a front panel control that goes from zero up (as they did in some other models) is way more logical and usable. There's no need to defend their balls-up.

I have a ton of power amps, all have proper level controls- all go from zero up- these are essentially a power amp in a speaker (plus some other junk).
No you get me wrong, I did not say it’s nice they do it this way, I myself need to extra purchase a passive preamp to do the volume part but when the original question is don’t understand why they removed the front pot and use the current config and I try to guess why they did so, not to say it’s completely nice to customers or such.
As you said it’s the basic model in range so I believe as you said it’s a balancing act for the “low” cost of them. Maybe they have got enough feedback or just decide themselves which I have no idea upon but I do feel myself they listen pretty well to their customer feedbacks when ideas were given.

as a user I do feel that when these speakers are sold in single, you either just give me a few sensitive setting or a wider range stepped attenuator type knob for approximate volume and I do the rest in the dac or external control to maintain the audio imaging when needed from say Track to track, or even different application needs (gaming from computer to tidal listening for example) and not need to try to turn both volume knob at the same time and try attenuate volume evenly. A stepped volume with something like 8-10 steps like in the very cheap fostex PM series where I first go into desktop studio monitors would be best though.

from the 80x0 series I missed the front on off switch more as that would do a lot of favour when need to switch to headphones with same source though
 
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