Pro-ject Phono Box MM Review

[Verig]

But if your comment was not sarcastic I do agree, this is the way to make a change, to convert smps to hifi. It's silly, it's marketing. But why not make life easier with basic and cheap PSU implementation. Less snakeoil in the way of $500 PSU upgrades at least.

 

[SKBubba]

So @amirm, I'm curious if you have a turntable and if you regularly or ever listen to vinyl?

Regarding headroom, pops clicks rumble etc., one can record vinyl to digital and easily filter all that stuff out with software. The results are pretty good, and preserve that vinyl "analog warmth" or whatever it is.

Or you could just listen to it on streaming.

 

[JDS]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pro-Ject Phono Box MM preamplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $89.
View attachment 297927
As you see, this is a compact and sturdy box. I wonder if they put some weight in it because if feels heavy for its size. This is useful to keep it from walking although my RCA cables did pull it down.

Pro-Ject Phono Box MM Measurement
Let's start with our usual dashboard of 5 mv at 1 kHz:

View attachment 297928
I like to see this measurement being noise dominated due to RIAA equalization. Here though, we have a tall third harmonic setting the limit. Still, what is there lands the unit in the middle of the pack which isn't bad:
View attachment 297929

Most important measurement here is RIAA equalization in the form of frequency response:
View attachment 297931
That's extremely good! We don't see many phono stages regardless of price with such accuracy. Do note that it is flat down to below 10 Hz so any rumble, etc. will be amplified as well.

Distortion raises its ugly head early though:
View attachment 297932
And also clips rather early. That is 1 kHz. It gets much worse at higher frequencies:
View attachment 297933

I don't think I have ever tested a phono stage with so little high frequency headroom!

Excluding noise, pure distortion takes a dip where it matters (i.e. our hearing is most sensitive):
View attachment 297934


Conclusions
I like the form factor of the unit at this price point. And the perfect RIAA equalization so tonality should be what the cartridge produces. Distortion though is a bit high and sets in early. Worst aspect is lack of headroom so pops and ticks will be more pronounced.

I am torn between the good and bad parts. Usually an audio device is mostly one or the other. Here we are right in the middle. I guess if you don't care about headroom, then it is a very good bargain phono stage. Personally I would look elsewhere.

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"I guess if you don't care about headroom, then it is a very good bargain phono stage."

That audience would be who -- all the folks with kilobuck ultrasonic LP cleaning machines who run sub-$100 phono stages?

Ultra-low distortion numbers on a phono stage may well be gilding the lily -- the source distortion overwhelms it. But headroom? not just important, but arguably most important in this class, where high output MM cartridges (and less than clean room storage and handling processes) reign.

 

[amirm]

So @amirm, I'm curious if you have a turntable and if you regularly or ever listen to vinyl?

I do have a turntable. Actually it was a kind donation from a member. It gets zero use and is not even connected right now. I hated the format when it was the main source of music. With alternatives now, I see no need to use it. Mind you, I do like my Reel to Reel tape deck.

 

[JDS]

I do have a turntable. Actually it was a kind donation from a member. It gets zero use and is not even connected right now. I hated the format when it was the main source of music. With alternatives now, I see no need to use it. Mind you, I do like my Reel to Reel tape deck.

Do you purchase pre-recorded tapes? Aren't they prohibitively expensive?
If not, what does the tape offer you that a ADC to HDD to DAC does not?

 

[amirm]

Do you purchase pre-recorded tapes? Aren't they prohibitively expensive?

Yes, and yes! Cheapest tape I have I think cost $250. Going rate is $400 to $450. Blank tape is $60!

As a result I just have a few tapes I listen to on special occasions.

 

[amirm]

If not, what does the tape offer you that a ADC to HDD to DAC does not?

It provides nothing extra on fidelity front because of the format itself. What sounds wonderful though are the tape masters of music from 1970s. They are so superior to any digital versions of the same. I have compared them one by one using Tidal streaming. The digital versions are just horrid. They are harsher, louder, etc. I don't know of any comparable release in digital.

What is great about tape is that it doesn't have the noises LP does. Nor its limitations in recording. And of course it has those beautiful VU meters!

 

[mash]

It provides nothing extra on fidelity front because of the format itself. What sounds wonderful though are the tape masters of music from 1970s. They are so superior to any digital versions of the same. I have compared them one by one using Tidal streaming. The digital versions are just horrid. They are harsher, louder, etc. I don't know of any comparable release in digital.

What is great about tape is that it doesn't have the noises LP does. Nor its limitations in recording. And of course it has those beautiful VU meters!

Have you ever reviewed those nice looking Levinson amps in the picture? Would be really fun to see them measured.

 

[LtMandella]

I've been waiting for this a couple of years: I is the one I bought (price driven) about 8 years ago.

I would really like to reduce pops/clicks. How much of an improvement could I expect with a pre-amp with more headroom? Will it be very noticeable?

Use an ultrasonic cleaner on your LPs. Except for physically damaged grooves, I bet a paycheck you will eliminate 99% of pops and clicks. It worked that way for me. I bought a generic ultrasonic cleaner bath for a couple hundred with a side mount device to rotate up to 6 LPs in the bath. Unbelievable how well it cleans and reduces surface noise.

 

[amirm]

Have you ever reviewed those nice looking Levinson amps in the picture? Would be really fun to see them measured.

No. They have both become flakey. And weigh well over 100 pounds. I can't even slide them on the floor let alone be able to measure them! There is a ML reference stereo in the center front which while very heavy as well, I might measure one day.

 

[Grotti]

Use an ultrasonic cleaner on your LPs. Except for physically damaged grooves, I bet a paycheck you will eliminate 99% of pops and clicks. It worked that way for me. I bought a generic ultrasonic cleaner bath for a couple hundred with a side mount device to rotate up to 6 LPs in the bath. Unbelievable how well it cleans and reduces surface noise.

OT, I know, but would you mind to reveal which ultrasonic cleaner you use?

 

[KSTR]

Something like iFi Zen Phono (not Air) does much better for a bit more. iFi is also built as PSU independent and can't be improved by battery (I tried). There are no PSU related problems to begin with so well done. Most products that need better PSU are just built that way on purpose.

FYI, the two small hum components at 60Hz and 180Hz we see for this preamp are not coming from the supply. The skilled eye will notice immediately why ;-)

 

[antcollinet]

Having looked through the reviews of phono preamps for something with more headroom - I am now surprised by your statement that 79mV is too low.

Looking through the recommended list I can only find 2 that do significantly better, and one of those is the most expensive at $2500 (Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL)

The second most expensive, the $1000 Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL only gets 56mV here, and no mention of that being insufficient. Many of the others are around the 50mV or lower.

The only other one that seems to better the 79mV at a low price point is the ART Precision phono pre at 131mV

 

[amirm]

Having looked through the reviews of phono preamps for something with more headroom - I am now surprised by your statement that 79mV is too low.

There are others:

MM is 131 mv.

 

[antcollinet]

There are others:

MM is 131 mv.

That was the last one I mentioned . And is a prime candidate to try out given the price.

But I'll grant the very poor headroom of the pro-ject at lower frequencies is probably also a problem for clicks.

 

[IAmAlwaysSerious]

I do have a turntable. Actually it was a kind donation from a member. It gets zero use and is not even connected right now. I hated the format when it was the main source of music. With alternatives now, I see no need to use it. Mind you, I do like my Reel to Reel tape deck.

Not to derail this thread too much, but that measurement on the laptop there... is that a measurement of your listening set-up?

Back on topic-ish), Vinyl is cheaper than tape though, and you can always use it as a Frisbee if you don't like it.
Of course, plenty of vinyl hardware is questionable. That makes the hobby harder.

 

[JDS]

It provides nothing extra on fidelity front because of the format itself. What sounds wonderful though are the tape masters of music from 1970s. They are so superior to any digital versions of the same. I have compared them one by one using Tidal streaming. The digital versions are just horrid. They are harsher, louder, etc. I don't know of any comparable release in digital.

What is great about tape is that it doesn't have the noises LP does. Nor its limitations in recording. And of course it has those beautiful VU meters!

To be clear, I assume you are not arguing that "Analog rulez," but that in many cases the digitization of the analog masters was done badly and/or in ways that altered the intention of the originals in non-euphonic ways. You are saying the inevitable slight degradations in an analog dupe from the 1970s master are less bothersome than the bad choices made in the (theoretically superior) digital chain. Correct?

 

[beagleman]

Yes, and yes! Cheapest tape I have I think cost $250. Going rate is $400 to $450. Blank tape is $60!

As a result I just have a few tapes I listen to on special occasions.

I used to have a small box full of older 1/2 track 7.5 IPS tapes that were duplicated at very low speed, actual consumer sold stuff from the late 50s-late 60s time period.

THOSE had great sound, if you can ignore some tape hiss.
not sure I can say it was "better" than digital, but it just had "Something" that made me feel its sound was impressive and somehow was hearing something VERY close to the master tape.

 

[DSJR]

Is the clipping level really a problem? You might want to choose a pickup that doesn't have too high an output voltage.

(But I prefer to use phono preamps with tubes anyway).

From decades working with this godforsaken format, I'd say good overload margins at hf are VITAL if *the effects* of surface noise, ticks and so on are ot be minimised. A switchable filter below 25 - 30Hz or so is also important when less competent turntables and pickups are used as on the vast majority of commercial pressings, there's nothing cut down there and what's left is grunge and rumbles...

Difficult to describe in words, but I have to acknowledge that a well tipped cartridge in a good well behaved tonearm and turntable platform and playing nicely kept well cut records, is still something to enjoy, but having a cheaper more resonant 'deck' with a peaky pickup using a 'nail' for a stylus (less common now but it was a massive issue years ago) and a phono stage with marginal overload performance, could ruin the experience forever for some...

I'd suggest anyone wanting a not silly money phono stage should look to the next level up - in the US, the Schiit Mani 2 might be a good starting point and for the UK (due to far lower prices here), the latest version of the Rega Fono MM...

P.S. The AT VM95E offers a great all-round performance and a not peaky hf region for relative peanuts and I seem to recall the 3mV output (at 5cm/s) shouldn't upset cheap stages like this one too much.

 

[JeremyFife]

It provides nothing extra on fidelity front because of the format itself. What sounds wonderful though are the tape masters of music from 1970s. They are so superior to any digital versions of the same. I have compared them one by one using Tidal streaming. The digital versions are just horrid. They are harsher, louder, etc. I don't know of any comparable release in digital.

What is great about tape is that it doesn't have the noises LP does. Nor its limitations in recording. And of course it has those beautiful VU meters!

Recognise that! (not tape, can't go there) but well mastered music that overcomes the limitations of the medium - it's the music that matters!
Almost able to let vinyl go ... almost, but not quite

Mind you - that Reel-to-Reel unit is a beautiful looking piece of kit