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Preamp with DAC?

RayDunzl

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So what's the point of the analog inputs on the Benchmark, RME and Pro-Ject Pre-Box Ds2? Tape only, or is a phono preamp presumed?

The analog input allows an analog line level input.

If your DAC feeds a power amp feeding speakers, it gives a path for a non-digital source.

Phono input is special - very low level input signal, and that signal requires special equalization to undo the equalization burned into records. See RIAA curve.

When a phono input is provided on a receiver or other multipurpose device, it will be in addition to one or more line level inputs.

If you have no phono input available, buy a phono preamp to boost the signal to line level for common analog inputs.

That's how it works.
 

levimax

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Having a better system is not going to leave the sound of your LP's behind.. it will just make them sound better along with all your sources. I would look at the Park Puffin which had digital output for easy integration with "modern" systems and a lot of other really useful features.
 

Holmz

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So what's the point of the analog inputs on the Benchmark, RME and Pro-Ject Pre-Box Ds2? Tape only, or is a phono preamp presumed?

Some popular items have included:
Tape player
CD player
iPhone or iPod
TV input
phono stage

Audio was all analogue before the mid 80s.
So I assuming that you are all digital. Or only digital?


So what's the point of the analog inputs on the Benchmark, RME …

At least on of the RME devices (e.g. ADI-2 PRO) can take in a line level input in as analogue and digitize it.
How many people are using it to capture sound in uncertain, but probably fewer people than use it as a player, rather than a receiver.
 
OP
Eulipian

Eulipian

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Having a better system is not going to leave the sound of your LP's behind.. it will just make them sound better along with all your sources. I would look at the Park Puffin which had digital output for easy integration with "modern" systems and a lot of other really useful features.

I'm aware that a move to digital doesn't make vinyl any less noisy. I'm interested in adding a digital server to my system, without foregoing my anachronistic vinyl tendencies. It doesn't sound better. I'm just attached to it.......for now.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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Some popular items have included:
Tape player
CD player
iPhone or iPod
TV input
phono stage

Audio was all analogue before the mid 80s.
So I assuming that you are all digital. Or only digital?




At least on of the RME devices (e.g. ADI-2 PRO) can take in a line level input in as analogue and digitize it.
How many people are using it to capture sound in uncertain, but probably fewer people than use it as a player, rather than a receiver.

Not all digital. Have CD and Raspberry Pi experimental streamer, but want to move up to undergraduate level digital streaming but still play those big black CDs with the grooves.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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The analog input allows an analog line level input.

If your DAC feeds a power amp feeding speakers, it gives a path for a non-digital source.

Phono input is special - very low level input signal, and that signal requires special equalization to undo the equalization burned into records. See RIAA curve.

When a phono input is provided on a receiver or other multipurpose device, it will be in addition to one or more line level inputs.

If you have no phono input available, buy a phono preamp to boost the signal to line level for common analog inputs.

That's how it works.


So, I have an ART Phono Preamp that I use to "rip" records when I have the time, as in not very often at all lately. Given the inherent noise in vinyl itself (I'm not a D2D MoFi collector), is going to a higher cost unit cost effective in terms of not making the records sound worse? As it's got the line-out, it seems that would do and I can stop worrying about the all-in-one unicorn that will be out of budget.

EDIT: and just to be transparently dumb, why not just use the Halfler 100 I have been using for 40 years for the phono line out into whatever DAC/Preamp combo that fits my budget and sounds good? Duh! Is there any reason to go beyond either of these options that will produce more euphoniousness?

 
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Ajax

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So what's the point of the analog inputs on the Benchmark, RME and Pro-Ject Pre-Box Ds2? Tape only, or is a phono preamp presumed?
In the days of old before digital became the main recording source, and playback required an external DAC, analogue inputs were the only inputs on preamps. They were used for Tuners, CD Players (with built in DAC), cassette players, reel to reel etc. Most pre amps had a special input for turntables only usually labelled "phono", however, the Benchmark does not. As Ray pointed out it is required to boost the weak signal emitted by the cartridge. If you do proceed down this route check if your cartridge is MM or MC.
 

fuzzy_logic

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So what's the point of the analog inputs on the Benchmark, RME and Pro-Ject Pre-Box Ds2? Tape only, or is a phono preamp presumed?
One of the analogue inputs on the Pro-Ject is a dedicated phono input for connecting a turntable, and the other is just a standard analogue input.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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One of the analogue inputs on the Pro-Ject is a dedicated phono input for connecting a turntable, and the other is just a standard analogue input.

Right, the Pro-Ject is the only one box solution that I've found so far. Alas, not available here in the 5-O and none of the dealers I've contacted on the Mainland ship. Wah wah wah wah. This thread and my related searches have been a great education and forced me to realize that the digital world has very little love for analog machines. I still prefer a watch to my phone, but where to find one that's got the functionality I want moving forward but < $2k?
 

levimax

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I am going to mention the Park's Puffin one more time. If you haven't played around with TT's a lot there are issues that come up integrating them with a "modern system" that may be unexpected. Noise can be a huge issue especially if the distance between the TT and pre-amp is more than a foot or two and especially is there are any noisy computers or modems or similar around. The very best thing you can do to assure a quiet and reliable and well matched TT connection is have the TT and phono pre-amp extremely close to each other with short cables. After the phono pre-amp you can run the output (digital or analog) pretty much as far as you like without issue. The Park's Puffin is a really good phono pre-amp you can locate right next to the TT and it has everything you need to properly "load" the cart and has both digital and analog outputs as well as other features like "click and pop" reduction and EQ. While not a one box solution it is a great solution which will allow you to easily and reliably connect a TT to pretty much any system you have or will have. I am not affiliated with the company in any way and don't even own one but I am familiar with them. http://parksaudiollc.com/
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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I am going to mention the Park's Puffin one more time. If you haven't played around with TT's a lot there are issues that come up integrating them with a "modern system" that may be unexpected. Noise can be a huge issue especially if the distance between the TT and pre-amp is more than a foot or two and especially is there are any noisy computers or modems or similar around. The very best thing you can do to assure a quiet and reliable and well matched TT connection is have the TT and phono pre-amp extremely close to each other with short cables. After the phono pre-amp you can run the output (digital or analog) pretty much as far as you like without issue. The Park's Puffin is a really good phono pre-amp you can locate right next to the TT and it has everything you need to properly "load" the cart and has both digital and analog outputs as well as other features like "click and pop" reduction and EQ. While not a one box solution it is a great solution which will allow you to easily and reliably connect a TT to pretty much any system you have or will have. I am not affiliated with the company in any way and don't even own one but I am familiar with them. http://parksaudiollc.com/

Thank you for the suggestion. I understand that the TT is a noise factory. At $500 the Puffin doesn't perform as well as other phono PAs tested except in the RIAA implementation if I'm reading @amirm review and testing correctly. The EQ and click reduction are interesting features that I don't see on other units (there is one but I can't remember which). In addition to price, the design, which the inputs an outputs on the face, doesn't seem functional or aesthetically pleasing. But, I really appreciate the other features and your suggestion, so it's still in the mix.
 

rwortman

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DAC/preamps under $1500 are not hard to find. It seems like the OP wants that and a miniature form factor and an ASR rave review. It is possible to have a great sounding system with no itty-bitty components and zero ASR raves.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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DAC/preamps under $1500 are not hard to find. It seems like the OP wants that and a miniature form factor and an ASR rave review. It is possible to have a great sounding system with no itty-bitty components and zero ASR raves.

Actually I'm past the sorting phase and understand that what I want doesn't exist--a DAC with an onboard phono preamp. So, I've got a two box solution--phono preamp + DAC/preamp with headphone out. Question is w/o/n to bother upgrading to new phono preamp or just use (1) my existing Halfer 100 preamp or the ART II I own; or (2) add something like the Puffin or Cambridge Duo and use one of them with a DAC with sufficient inputs and headphone out. My original question about a 1 box solution has been answered "no." So, it's add a DAC/preamp and use what I've got solely for phono or add a new phono preamp as well. I think the answer is get a DAC/Preamp with sufficient input flexibility and see how it sounds with either of the phono amps I currently have. Don't spend dollars I don't have to until I conclude I have to. Thanks.
 

rwortman

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My original question about a 1 box solution has been answered "no."
One box solutions do exist, though. Preamps with DAC’s and phono stages are relatively common. They just aren’t in half width boxes.
 

MCH

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One box solutions do exist, though. Preamps with DAC’s and phono stages are relatively common. They just aren’t in half width boxes.
Well, but amps do esist. Something like the NAD d3020 ir the D3045 (measured here) have phono, dac (multiple inputs) and seem small. If you forget about the amp...
 

charleski

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Well, but amps do esist. Something like the NAD d3020 ir the D3045 (measured here) have phono, dac (multiple inputs) and seem small. If you forget about the amp...
I agree. Restricting yourself to preamps automatically means you’re looking at the higher end of the market, or hoping to find a specialist offering that has the right feature set. NAD, Yamaha, etc offer several integrated amps that would do the job for you (and many, like the NAD D3045, come with pre-outs). Performance won’t be top-tier, but the NAD is comfortably in the green zone, so it’s unlikely you’d notice.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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One box solutions do exist, though. Preamps with DAC’s and phono stages are relatively common. They just aren’t in half width boxes.

Would you kindly share information on such boxes? I don't care about the dimensions; only functionality and performance.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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I agree. Restricting yourself to preamps automatically means you’re looking at the higher end of the market, or hoping to find a specialist offering that has the right feature set. NAD, Yamaha, etc offer several integrated amps that would do the job for you (and many, like the NAD D3045, come with pre-outs). Performance won’t be top-tier, but the NAD is comfortably in the green zone, so it’s unlikely you’d notice.

You are right of course. The easy solution would be to ditch my Hafler DH-100 and DH-220 and go with an integrated amp. The NAD would probably be fine though it's got a lot less power than the Hafler. I like the Halfer and was hoping to keep it in the mix but upgrade the front end to include DAC. The combos like the NAD don't seem to make it into the blue but you're right, it's probably not hearable. Thanks.
 
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Eulipian

Eulipian

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You can always connect the pre-out from the integrated to your power amp so you can keep the DH-220.

That's the current plan, which is why I was looking for a DAC/Preamp with phono in and headphone out for a two box solution. Thanks again.
 
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