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Pre-sub room analysis w/ B&W 600 S3s

Bhh

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I've gotten the upgrade itch recently and have spouse approval to add a pair of subs and upgrade these bookshelf speakers. I've also ventured into room correction so I decided to document the process. This is the room and my wife exercises very strict control over the aesthetics.

LR.jpg



Those are 15 year old B&W 600 S3s driven off a Rotel A12. I think I've decided on a pair of Rythmic L12s subs since I have almost no flexibility in where they can go and plan to order the first when they are back in stock here shortly. The first will go to the right of the credenza behind that leather Eames lounge chair. The second will most likely go to the left of the credenza but there isn't room with that other chair so that one is a bit more controversial and still under some debate. She is open to it because she thinks that corner is too crowded with the chair but I sense a new handbag/shoe/lamp purchase in our future if I manage to win this one. Anyway, I plan to add some sort of DSP device when the sub(s) get setup but I'm interested in tuning them for the entire sofa area if possible although I tend to sit on the left so that one will get biased if needed.

I ran some REW sweeps for all three sofa seats (L+R, L, R) with just these B&Ws this week. All 9 sweeps are below with psychoacoustic smoothing turned on and an average of all 9 sweeps is shown afterwards. The similarity between the 3 seats was surprisingly similar but I know that is likely to change when the sub(s) get added.

B&WNoSub.jpg



Average.jpg


Whoa! What's going on at 3500 Hz? Interestingly enough, we recently auditioned a pair of Sonos Ones (wife's request) and that dip was really obvious in A/B listening tests. The Sonos Ones went back because they sounded like doodoo but with True Play DSP enabled on the Sonos, this dip on the B&Ws was glaringly hollow sounding by comparison. I couldn’t put my finger on exactly what was off at the time but now it’s obvious.

The bass on these B&Ws however doesn't begin to roll-off until 40hz though which seems impressive to me for these little guys. They are rear-ported however so that window is probably acting like a gigantic bass booster/reflector.

Anyway, we have a new studio building under construction right now so when that is finished, the plan is to relocate the B&Ws to that space and replace them with a pair of Revel Performa3 M105s or 106s most likely. I'm dragging my feet on those hoping to see some more speaker tests at that price point first but that's the plan for now. Anyway, I figured I would document this process over the next few months, should be fun.
 
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thewas

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The 3,5 kHz dip is most probably a result of the later B&W models typical high crossover frequency with low acoustic order filtering (resulting to some lobing and sound power dip at this presence region) and also part of their euphonic voicing.
 
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Bhh

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Maybe a slight toe-in would help with that 3500Hz dip..

Its worth a try but I suspect if a toe-in would help, we would see more of an improvement of the left and right seating positions over the center one no? The left and right seats are only about 12" off-axis from the speakers. These charts seem to suggest to me off-axis response on these aren’t too bad, at least in this room.

BTW, the speakers are about 8'-6"-9' apart and that is about the same distance the seating position is to the speakers. The sofa is 8' wide.
 
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QMuse

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Its worth a try but I suspect if a toe-in would help, we would see more of an improvement of the left and right seating positions over the center one no?

Unfortunately you are probably right. :)

Maybe rising speakers height would help as they seem at least 40cm lower than where head position would be (assuming it was measured from that height).
 
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Bhh

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Maybe rising speakers height would help as they seem at least 40cm lower than where head position would be (assuming it was measured from that height).

For sure. The tweaters are about 15" below ear level (38cm, good guess!). No way I'm going to get speaker stands past the boss but I could angle them up I bet with some rubber feet or something. These things are headed out anyway so I'm not going to go crazy with it until I get the new speakers but I wanted to document the "before". I plan to update this thread as I progress.
 

Cahudson42

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Nice setup! Any initial thoughts on how you will add DSP?

Wish I too were enjoying the winter in Upstate NY - but our Adirondack camp is not winterized..:(
 
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Soniclife

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but I could angle them up I bet with some rubber feet or something
Definitely give that a go, and then remeasure.

Are there published measurements of your speakers somewhere?
 

QMuse

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No way I'm going to get speaker stands past the boss but I could angle them up I bet with some rubber feet or something.

I was thinking of some custom made short wooden stands. These are not nice but I can't find a better picture so I'm posting this so you can get the idea:


1009835-short-wood-speaker-stands.jpg
 
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Bhh

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Nice setup! Any initial thoughts on how you will add DSP?

Wish I too were enjoying the winter in Upstate NY - but our Adirondack camp is not winterized..:(

Thank you. It's cold today but I love the winters up here and so much less traffic!
Right now I'm leaning towards a miniDSP nanoDIGI 2x8 B as it is all digital so I can avoid the infamous miniDSP DAC. I feed the amp via Toslink from a Chromecast Audio for now so I plan to route that through the DSP and then to the Rotel via digital coax. At least that is how I am leaning at the moment.

@Soniclife I suspect you are joking but no, that is a 9'-6" window that has to be creating some crazy acoustic reflections but also why these little rear-ported B&Ws create some decent thump for their size. As far as measurements on these speakers, not that can find. They are pretty old.

@QMuse Oh yes, I see what you mean. That could look nice and I can manage something like that. I have a wood shop here and do some hobby wood working so I could probably pull that off.
 
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