Pre-amplifier foobar2000

[davidebond]

Hi. In the preferences of foobar2000 there are two pre-amp: with or without rg. It seems to me that the second gives a sense of spatiality to the sound. This is more clear and open. I am using foobar2000 with the couple Jds labs atom DAC+ and atom amp+. Is it a suggestion?

Can it be of help, or it is the same thing as augmenting the volume?

Thanks and best,

Davide

 

[Jimbob54]

Rg presumably being replay gain? Without replay gain will likely be louder for most material. The dfference you note is probably due to a difference in output volume.

 

[davidebond]

Yes. I didn't translate rg because I didn't know its English translation. Could it be interesting outputting more volume in the dac? In this case, I could set lower the amp, reducing the possibility to alter the sound. More the volume of the amp and more the distortion. Right?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Google Replay Gain. It will explain what's going on and why your brain thinks one is better than the other.

 

[davidebond]

Ok. I apologize for the disturb.

Thanks and best,

davide

 

[Jimbob54]

Yes. I didn't translate rg because I didn't know its English translation. Could it be interesting outputting more volume in the dac? In this case, I could set lower the amp, reducing the possibility to alter the sound. More the volume of the amp and more the distortion. Right?

There will be no meaningful distortion in your electronics chain regardless of whether replay gain is on or off. All replay gain is designed to do is make the overall level of your music more homogeneous, less prone to an overall "loud" song deafen you after you've turned things up for an overall "quiet" song. In my experience most music gets a reduction in volume, some gets increased. It requires your streaming service to have the right embedded data though. Ditto any local files.

 

[davidebond]

Yes I knew that the rg worked to make homogeneous a playlist, but I hear a strong amplification of the sound. For this I opened the thread.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yes I knew that the rg worked to make homogeneous a playlist, but I hear a strong amplification of the sound. For this I opened the thread.

Yes- replay gain can reduce the level of some tracks by significant dB. When i was using it with Roon and checking some content was going down by up to 7 or 8 dB or so (some of course was not going down by near that much and some was going up). Now, if your content doesnt have the sound level data embedded, it is possible Foobar defaults to a set dB reduction (Roon does) which might mean ALL your content went down by that amount with it switched on.

So when set up and used properly, RG is not the same as amplifying the sound (or attenuating it) and it definintely isnt about augmenting it (if you mean somehow modifying the signal for the better)- its just about levelling it. I would imagine Foobar reports what its doing to any given track, so have a look at one where you are toggling RG on/ off and it might tell you how much the level changes by

 

[davidebond]

Well, I want no levelling. But foobar2000 has two pre-amp: one with rg (which is not my interest) and one without rg. The pre-amp without rg is a pre-amp, or not? I am not understanding. I understood the concept of rg, but from the first post I stressed the presence of two pre-amp. I would use the pre-amp without rg. Is a usual pre-amp? Could it help the amp (augmenting the pre-amp, I diminish the volume of the amp and the risk of distortion: this is my main argument)?

 

[sejarzo]

All that "Preamp without RG" will do is raise or decrease the output level by the number of dB that you set. It's merely a manual volume control.

I don't think there is huge danger of using it to raise the volume as Foobar processes everything at 32 bits internally before outputting the data to your DAC at whatever bit depth you set on the Preferences: Output page, as you would have essentially 8 bits or 48 dB of digital gain available before a 24 bit sample at 0 dBFS would clip.

If you increase the digital volume sent to the DAC, it will send a higher analog signal to the input of your headamp, and you will simply turn down the volume knob to get the same SPL in your headphones. The distortion produced in the headamp is all beyond the input potentiometer that attenuates the analog input. Those stages, where any distortion is produced, will see the same voltage swings no matter if you have a high digital level sent to your DAC with a low volume knob setting on the headamp, or a non-boosted digital level sent to the DAC and a higher setting on the volume knob, if you are listening at the same SPL in your headphones.

 

[davidebond]

Ok. Then, it is useless for me. Thanks for your explanation.

Thanks and best,

davide

 

[Jimbob54]

Wait a minute- are you trying to use the preamp function in Foobar to raise the output level? Or reduce it? Pretty sure that is there to reduce signal to prevent digital clipping (either because using some DSP or you have some tracks that get close to 0 dB) Its not really meant to increase gain - that is unless you are absolutely sure none of your music gets anywhere near 0 dB.

Its not really the same as an actual pre amp used to gain stage between a source component and a power amp, especially if you want to increase volume. And why are you concerned about distortion in the amp? There isnt any to speak of.

EDIT @sejarzo said it better first.

 

[davidebond]

I set the volume of windows 11 at its maximum. Since the jds atom stack+ is not so powerful with Sennheiser hd 650, I thought to search for a software amplifier. As a matter of fact, reading the preferences of Foobar2000 I saw this sort of pre-amp and I thought to use it in order to obtain more volume in input. But you are explained that the function of this feature was another. Given a list of pieces, setting a sort of uniform volume for all. No track extremely loud and one very pianissimo.

 

[Jimbob54]

I set the volume of windows 11 at its maximum. Since the jds atom stack+ is not so powerful with Sennheiser hd 650, I thought to search for a software amplifier. As a matter of fact, reading the preferences of Foobar2000 I saw this sort of pre-amp and I thought to use it in order to obtain more volume in input. But you are explained that the function of this feature was another. Given a list of pieces, setting a sort of uniform volume for all. No track extremely loud and one very pianissimo.

Do you mean you are maxing the volume on the Atom amp?

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't use foobar2000 but I know something about ReplayGain.

Many (maybe most) commercial recordings are 0dB normalized. 0dB is the "digital maximum". Some digital formats can go over 0dB but your DAC can't go over 0dBFS and you'll get clipping (distortion) if you play a file with peaks that go over 0dB.

Peak levels don't correlate well with perceived loudness and there are many quiet-sounding 0dB normalized/maximized files.

That means you can't boost these quiet-sounding files to match your louder files (without clipping). For that reason ReplayGain mostly makes the louder files quieter, rather than boosting the quiet files.

A lot of people complain when ReplayGain makes their songs quieter but it's not a problem if you have enough analog gain to make-up for it.

The loudness target is a compromise and most quiet-sounding files can be adjusted to meet the target. But some quiet-sounding files can't hit the loudness target without clipping so there is an option to "prevent clipping" and those files will just be boosted as much as possible without clipping. Or if you allow clipping those quiet sounding files can be boosted enough to match everything else.

If you increase the target loudness from the default you are giving ReplayGain "less room to work" and a higher percentage of files can't be boosted that louder target without clipping.

A digital "preamp" can also push the files into clipping.

Digital equalizers often have a "preamp" because things like boosting the bass can push the levels into (digital) clipping. In that case the preamp is not used as amplifier. It's used as an attenuator to bring down the overall digital level.

 

[davidebond]

To @Jimbob54 : no. I set Windows' volume at its maximum. The amp Is at 70% - 80% with low gain. According to my opinion, the atom amp+ doesn't push very much. I set also Foobar2000 at its maximum following your indications (not in this thread). Thanks to @DVDdoug for your exposition.

Best,

Davide

 

[Jimbob54]

To @Jimbob54 : no. I set Windows' volume at its maximum. The amp Is at 70% - 80% with low gain. According to my opinion, the atom amp+ doesn't push very much. I set also Foobar2000 at its maximum following your indications (not in this thread). Thanks to @DVDdoug for your exposition.

Best,

Davide

The Atom is pretty damn clean up to very high volumes even in high gain. I'm not really sure where opinion comes into this.

Pretty sure in at least one other thread you've started this horse has been thoroughly beaten.

You have tonnes of headroom here, the only way to meaningfully change the sound out of your headphones other than simply increasing volume is to deploy EQ.

 

[davidebond]

I am sorry.

 

[boxerfan88]

Need some advise about foobar preamp setting as shown in the image below.

May I know which of the following method foobar processes the gain?

1. Method 1
   • Apply track RG
   • then check for clipping, if clipping, reduce gain
   • then apply +3dB preamp gain
   • (this means that there is risk of clipping)
2. Method 2
   • Apply track RG and +3dB preamp gain
   • then check for clipping, if clipping, reduce gain
   • (this means that there is no risk of clipping)
3. Some other method...

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[boxerfan88]

May I know which of the following method foobar processes the gain?

Received the answer: Method 2.

Ref: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,124290.new.html#new