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pre-amp recomendations

ejenner

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Hi All, first post on here.

At the moment I have my outputs on my computer sound card connected straight to my power amp. I've had that for a few years and it's ok.

Problems I have is firstly I'd like a remote control for adjusting the volume. Having to go to the computer to shift the volume up or down is a bit of a drag.

Second issue is that I believe my sound quality is lacking when the signal is supplied directly from the computer sound card. It feels (sounds) like at lower volumes there isn't enough of a signal for the amp and speakers to be able to fully reproduce whatever is being sent. You can turn it up and performance starts to improve but you get to a point where the overall volume is too loud for comfortable listening even if you are starting to hear better range.

So I've come to the conclusion that I want a pre-amp. I'm imagining that the pre-amp is going to increase a weak source (aren't they all weak until they get to the amp?) and give it some body before transmitting it on to the power amp.

I looked at Naim NAC range of pre-amps but was put off by two things... firstly lots of comments characterising NAIM amps as 'clinical'. That's not really the sort of sound I'm looking for. NAIM don't do tone controls either... so what if your setup doesn't sound right.. you have no way to improve things and that worries me. NAIM probably thought all your components would be NAIM so why would anything have to be adjusted. They also don't have a power supply so you have to buy that separately as an addition.

Another amp I briefly looked at was the NAD 320BEE. I liked the fact that despite it being an 'integrated amp' it did have a 'pre-out' so you can bypass the internal power amp and use only the pre-amp features. I searched for a review and that brought me here. All was going well with the review until the part where someone suggested testing the amp in bypass mode. At that point it was discovered that the pre-amp part of this amplifier is a huge pile of steaming excrement. It was mentioned that many owners were using their NAD 320BEE as a power-amp (you can bypass in either direction so you use either the power or pre-amp part in isolation) and that it was preferential. Given I've no issues with my power amp that rules out the NAD 320BEE.

So I'm open to ideas. My favourite kind of HiFi high quality stuff which is cheap because it's old. I like NAIM and LINN... but open minded.
 

Blumlein 88

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If the computer is your main source, a DAC/preamp with USB input would be a good choice all the way around. There are some newer ones of excellent performance.

Oh, and welcome to ASR as this is your first post.

The Topping D50S has been reviewed here, and is $250 as one good example.
https://www.amazon.com/Topping-D50s-Bluetooth-Decoder-ES9038Q2M/dp/B07VJM3YJ3
The review here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nd-measurements-of-new-topping-d50s-dac.7914/

Here is another that has been reviewed here for the same price. SMSL SU8.

https://www.amazon.com/Decoder-SMSL...ectronics&sprefix=smsl,electronics,152&sr=1-3

Here is the review:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-8-version-2-balanced-dac.5433/

There are other choices for more or less.
 
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Willem

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If you are considering Naim type expenditure an RME ADI-2 DAC is much better, and has a remote, plus extensive dsp tone, balance, dynamic loudness etc controls. But if your PC is the only source, that sound shaping can indeed be done on the PC, and in that case a semi budget DAC with volume control and remote wil be enough.
A DAC with volume control is essentially the modern incarnation of the traditional pre amplifier. DACs such as have been mentioned here will very likely sound rather better than computer soundcards.
 

JeffS7444

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Using a the pre-out jacks receiver or integrated amp can work great, but keep cable lengths fairly short (~1.5m or less, low capacitance) because in my limited experience, manufacturers like to cut costs by eliminating the line amplifier stages in these sorts of products. If you’ve got longer lengths of cable to deal with, stick with separate preamplifiers, which generally will be equipped with proper line amp stage.

Full-featured new preamps are not so common these days, but I did find this exception:
http://www.signaltransfer.freeuk.com/preamp.htm
Would expect it to be about as good as it gets (I expect to have mine completed in the next month or so).
 

daftcombo

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You can also consider the very convenient Little Bear MC2 for 35$.
XLR and RCA inputs, XLR and RCA output, volume control, doesn't need electricity to work.
I have two of them.
 

Berwhale

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A Topping D50s + JDS Labs Atom is going to give you an audibly transparent headphone experience plus a pre-amp out from the Atom (and switching between two inputs). Plus, you'll have volume control from both devices (including via the remote for the D50s).
 
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ejenner

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Little Bear is going to be some sort of signal repressor or something like that. i.e. just increases the resistance to dampen the signal coming into the amp. I don't think that's going to work very well. When my power-amp broke I did buy a NobSound (who make Little Bear) amp which fitted in the palm of your hand as a stand-in. It arrived same day delivery through Amazon Prime. It was ok, not good sound quality. Someone pulled the cables on it and broke the internal connections from the USB socket to the PCB so I binned it. I'd have another one... but it has it's place.. not in a high quality hi-fi setup.

Really like the look of the Signal Transfer project. Described as "probably the best pre-amplifier in the world". Unfortunately... can't see any mention of a remote control anywhere... and that's a requirement. I really like these enthusiast inspired projects as they tend to incorporate the best of everything for a reasonable price. But without a remote control it's not something I'd want as I can't keep getting up off the sofa to turn it up after the wife turns it down. It's a feature missing from Spotify as well. If you use your mobile phone to control Spotify on a desktop computer all it will let you do is change tracks, no volume control.

As for controlling tone via the PC... It's my suspicion that the signal coming from the sound card to the power amp is missing something. I'm sure there's a technical description for what it isn't supplying to the power-amp but I don't have any way of describing what it is. All I can say is that if you turn it up to higher volumes the magic starts to happen, at more sensible volumes you can hear a distinct difference in the ability of the setup to reproduce sound at the right quality, it sounds a bit flat. Connecting the same setup to my mobile phone via the 3.5mm headphone jack actually produces a far more complete sound. I've tried about 5 different sound cards and the results are very similar from one to another. The one I use most is the CardDelux from Digital Audio Labs: https://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio/280/index.html

I'm quite interested in this idea of a DAC instead of a traditional pre-amp. After all, the PC sound card is a DAC... it's what I'm already doing. Just upgrading to an external DAC with all the bells and whistles of 2020s and presumably, since it was designed to take the place of the pre-amp what comes out should be the perfect feed to a power-amp. As I'm new to DACs I'll probably go for the Topping as it's cheaper. It may be the case that my power amp and speakers aren't well matched and the source isn't the problem... although with my mobile phone experiment I've proved the system can sound radically different depending what is connected to it!

I'm glad I posted on here, some great recommendations.
 

Willem

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What is the rest of your system?
By the way, it is nor surprising that the sound changes when you increase the volume. Human hearing has a varying sensitivity for different frequencies (look up Fletcher Munson) so at lower levels bass seems to disappear and treble to a lesser extent as well. Therefore the ADI-2 has a so called adjustable dynamic loudness to compensate when you turn down the volume. It works very well.
 
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ejenner

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If anybody from Signal Transfer is tuned into this I think all I'd want from a remote control would be an 'up/down' volume control... and if you wanted to be fancy you could add a mute button as well. Just nice if you have a phone call or if you hear someone calling you from the other side of the house... quickly mute the volume. Being able to adjust up / down without having to get up off the chair is almost essential. When you're standing beside the equipment adjusting the nob you're usually outside the sound stage... so you don't know where the best setting is likely to be as you're not hearing the sound as you would when sitting back in the sound stage. As it is, I might get up 2 or 3 times to go back and adjust the volume and then for a new track you might have to do it again!
 

Berwhale

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ejenner

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What is the rest of your system?
By the way, it is nor surprising that the sound changes when you increase the volume. Human hearing has a varying sensitivity for different frequencies (look up Fletcher Munson) so at lower levels bass seems to disappear and treble to a lesser extent as well. Therefore the ADI-2 has a so called adjustable dynamic loudness to compensate when you turn down the volume. It works very well.

Interested in that feature. Maybe that could swing it for me.

The kit I have is nothing fancy. The power amp is a clone of the NAIM NAP 200 which I built myself with a very good quality power supply. The power supply was accidentally delivered to a retired amplifier builder who said he thought it was of exceptional quality and thought I'd be very happy with it! The speakers are the Mordaunt Short ms55ti which I got for free. They have the x2 8-inch drivers which might be part of the problem, potentially hard to drive? Although, as I said... ridiculous as it sounds, running it from my mobile phone produces a very pleasing sound.
 
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ejenner

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If you just want to control volume from your listening position, you could buy a USB volume control and suitably long extension cable...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AIMOS-Controller-Adjuster-Control-Computer/dp/B07PQ52NZL

Or a wireless remote like this...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DroiX-Controller-Air-Mouse-Gyroscope-Projectors-G10/dp/B07PDMVZ9K

Or a wireless keyboard with volume controls like this...

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/wireless-touch-keyboard-k400-plus

Problem with this idea is that the quality of the sound changes depending where you set the two volume controls, one at the OS level and then another in Spotify. Usually the OS level volume control is best set at 100%. Then tempered by the volume control in Spotify. So you can see, anything which controls the Windows volume isn't going to be suitable.
 

Willem

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USB power, so not a problem. The expensive linear power supply is for those who like to believe that switch mode power supplies are a problem (decent ones are not). The RME ADI-2 comes with its own external high quality switch mode power supply.
 

Berwhale

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Blumlein 88

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If the RME is in your budget, then just get it. As well as being an excellent Dac and preamp, it can do parametric EQ. RME is a highly regarded pro audio company which supports it's product very well.
 

daftcombo

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The Little Bear MC2 sounds transparent to me, either used with Focal Aria 906 or JBL 305p mkII.
I would stay away from Nobsound amps and DACs, but in a passive pre-amp what could go wrong?
 
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