Power supply for NUC?

[Mulder]

This product from Audiophonics in France is said to support, for example, an Intel NUC with clean electricity. I recently read in another forum about a person who, despite his own great skepticism, in an A/B test found that it gave a clearly better sound when his NUC with Roon Rock was fed with this power source instead of it's regular switched aggregate. But is this even theoretically possible? I can understand that computers often have dirty electricity out of their USB ports, but is this dirt not generated in the computer itself? Isn't this with a separate power supply to the computer not to attack the problem at the wrong end so to speak? (I completely disregard the fact that a good DAC ought to be immune against dirty electricity carried over via USB)

Does this product and other similar have any function at all, and if so which - provided it really does what they state that it should do?

AUDIOPHONICS LPSU100 Stabilized Power supply 19V 5.25A 100W NAS / Intel Nuc - Audiophonics

supply-stabilized-linear-19v-525a-100w-nasfreeboxmac-mini

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[Sokel]

I don't know about the PSU but NUC is the noisiest thing I have ever measured.
And is not just a consistent high noise,jumps all over the place too.

(I have tried two of them)

I don't think a nice PSU can fix it.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Depends on what the rest of the system looks like. If there's a ground connection there and the NUC's power supply's leakage current with all the goodies from the mains filter makes it down your unbalanced interconnects, then I can very much imagine that it would make a difference. If the NUC connects to a balanced DAC which in itself is an IEC Class I device, then rather not.

The supply certainly looks very neatly constructed.

 

[Chr1]

Why not just use a decent external DAC?
As you mentioned, they are immune to the computer noise.

 

[Mulder]

Why not just use a decent external DAC?
As you mentioned, they are immune to the computer noise.

Well, yes. This is not a problem I have to deal with myself. I was just curious to know if there is a situation where a power-supply of this kind can be useful. My interest is more theoretical than practical. I thought that computers are very dirty as a consequence of it internals, not just the power supply.

 

[Roland68]

This product from Audiophonics in France is said to support, for example, an Intel NUC with clean electricity. I recently read in another forum about a person who, despite his own great skepticism, in an A/B test found that it gave a clearly better sound when his NUC with Roon Rock was fed with this power source instead of it's regular switched aggregate. But is this even theoretically possible? I can understand that computers often have dirty electricity out of their USB ports, but is this dirt not generated in the computer itself? Isn't this with a separate power supply to the computer not to attack the problem at the wrong end so to speak? (I completely disregard the fact that a good DAC ought to be immune against dirty electricity carried over via USB)

Does this product and other similar have any function at all, and if so which - provided it really does what they state that it should do?

AUDIOPHONICS LPSU100 Stabilized Power supply 19V 5.25A 100W NAS / Intel Nuc - Audiophonics

supply-stabilized-linear-19v-525a-100w-nasfreeboxmac-mini

www.audiophonics.fr

For audio applications, just get a used Mac Mini from 2010-2012 for 100-150 €/$, these also have an optical output.
Much quieter than you can get from the NUC with any expensive power supply.

 

[somebodyelse]

I'd like to see details of the testing as I doubt it fulfils the standards we expect for reliability in listening tests. As @AnalogSteph said, the system details matter too. It is unlikely the cleanliness of the 19V line will contribute much to performance as it will go through internal switching regulators to step it down to the voltages actually used by the computing parts.

 

[SIY]

Well, yes. This is not a problem I have to deal with myself. I was just curious to know if there is a situation where a power-supply of this kind can be useful. My interest is more theoretical than practical. I thought was that computers are very dirty as a consequence of it internals, not just the power supply.

If there's a difference, it will be in noise, not sound.

 

[Chr1]

For audio applications, just get a used Mac Mini from 2010-2012 for 100-150 €/$, these also have an optical output.
Much quieter than you can get from the NUC with any expensive power supply.

I am presuming that the OP is using Windows or Linux, so he could get one of the many quality fanless MiniPCs and a decent external DAC which would be silent via USB. Superior sonically and a lot cheaper than the Mac Mini. My 2c.

(PS If Windows, there's the benefit of an extremely good, free DSP solution : MathAudio RoomEQ and Foobar2000 too.)

 

[Roland68]

I am presuming that the OP is using Windows or Linux, so he could get one of the many quality fanless MiniPCs and a decent external DAC which would be silent via USB. Superior sonically and a lot cheaper than the Mac Mini. My 2c.

(PS If Windows, there's the benefit of an extremely good, free DSP solution : MathAudio RoomEQ and Foobar2000 too.)

All of these things also run on the Mac, but you can also install Windows Linux, no problem.
It was just about cheap, reliable and high-quality hardware for audio use.

Most mini PCs do not have particularly high-quality hardware, and if they do, they are very expensive. But maybe you know of affordable alternatives.
I think it's a myth that there are differences in sound, especially with high-quality hardware. We've already done enough real blind tests, including with manufacturers of special audio PCs.
It would also be a bit strange if the devices on which all the music is produced suddenly no longer delivered the same high performance when playing back.

 

[Mulder]

I am presuming that the OP is using Windows or Linux, so he could get one of the many quality fanless MiniPCs and a decent external DAC which would be silent via USB. Superior sonically and a lot cheaper than the Mac Mini. My 2c.

(PS If Windows, there's the benefit of an extremely good, free DSP solution : MathAudio RoomEQ and Foobar2000 too.)

You don’t have to presume anything. Just read my postings. I am not asking for a solution.

 

[Chr1]

Okay. I think that it is just like with DACs: Upgrading the power supply should not be necessary.
You should be able to get rid of any computer noise by either using optical out or asynchronous USB to an external DAC.

My take on fanless/noiseless computers, as with normal "noisy" computers, is that Macs tend to be more expensive for the same hardware/spec.
Again, my 2c only.

 

[Killingbeans]

despite his own great skepticism

Nearly every single nutjob review on the planet tries to use that argument as a silver bullet.

Just shows that most people have no idea of how cognitive bias actually works.

But is this even theoretically possible?

Not bloody likely.

The 19v from the PSU is probably not used directly anywhere in the NUC. Instead it's fed to a myriad of different small switch mode regulators.

The PSU has little to no influence on the final amount of noise. The PCB layout of the components in the NUC and the on-board filtering of the supply voltages and the signals most likely does all of the work.

 

[voodooless]

I recently read in another forum about a person who, despite his own great skepticism, in an A/B test found that it gave a clearly better sound when his NUC with Roon Rock was fed with this power source instead of it's regular switched aggregate

Isn’t that a meme by now? “I never expected product XYZ to make a difference, but in the end it did… veils lifted!”

I’m guessing this is what you were referring to (from the Audiophonics reviews):

I can fully confirm everything that has been written about the power supply in other positive reviews.
The benefits of the power supply for a music computer with Roon Rock (in my case Prime Mini i7, DA converter from La Rosita) are unmistakable. I could not imagine such a good performance. The music plays in front of a darker background, more space, improved sound colours, clearly higher dynamics, more space between the instruments, more details over the entire frequency range, bass more contoured, voices stand more freely in the room. All in all, a top unit. Price and performance are right.

It’s pure unadulterated audiophile nonsense.

 

[Mulder]

Nearly every single nutjob review on the planet tries to use that argument as a silver bullet.

Just shows that most people have no idea of how cognitive bias actually works.



Not bloody likely.

The 19v from the PSU is probably not used directly anywhere in the NUC. Instead it's fed to a myriad of different small switch mode regulators.

The PSU has little to no influence on the final amount of noise. The PCB layout of the components in the NUC and the on-board filtering of the supply voltages and the signals most likely does all of the work.

Yes. I assumed this is the case. But to me Audiophonics is not associated with BS HiFi, so I was kind of confused. I asked myself, have I missed something here.

 

[voodooless]

But to me Audiophonics is not associated with BS HiFi, so I was kind of confused.

They have all kinds of stuff. You can also find very expensive cables and other audiophilia. Just learn to ignore it

 

[Killingbeans]

But to me Audiophonics is not associated with BS HiFi, so I was kind of confused.

They sell nonsense like this:

FURUTECH LINEFLUX NCF Interconnect Cables RCA OCC Copper NCF 1.2m (Pair) - Audiophonics

With the LindFlux NCF, Furutech delivers a beautiful high-end RCA cable. This one ensures a perfect transmission of the signal, thanks to carefully selected materials, to a cryogenic treatment but also to the NCF material developed by the brand.

www.audiophonics.fr

Most audio shops sell BS in one form or another. They have to pay the bills somehow.

 

[KSTR]

This product from Audiophonics in France is said to support, for example, an Intel NUC with clean electricity. I recently read in another forum about a person who, despite his own great skepticism, in an A/B test found that it gave a clearly better sound when his NUC with Roon Rock was fed with this power source instead of it's regular switched aggregate. But is this even theoretically possible? I can understand that computers often have dirty electricity out of their USB ports, but is this dirt not generated in the computer itself? Isn't this with a separate power supply to the computer not to attack the problem at the wrong end so to speak? (I completely disregard the fact that a good DAC ought to be immune against dirty electricity carried over via USB)

We use various NUC models at work for audio purposes, the onboard audio chips are typically from the ALC family and usually measure and sound fine under laboratory conditions.
But their output is single-ended 3.5mm jack which means that in a complete system you are quite likely to run into "ground loop" issues, creating the dreaded hum/buzz, usually scaling with CPU/GPU activity. That depends on the power source for the NUC as well as on the power supplies of the other devices (amp, notably) and it further depends what is connected to the NUC in general (HDMI monitor, for example).
That's why computer-based audio using onboard chips has gotten a bad reputation for being noisy. The chips themselves are not to blame.

The solution is to break or mitigate the ground loop.
One way to do this is to use a 2-prong supply brick for the NUC with very low mains coupling and those are very rare.
Another solution are audio isolation transformers, which tend to be costly when good audio quality is required.
The solution that we use internally are small adapter boards with balanced inputs so that the noise on the GND contact is cancelled out.

For true high quality playback I would recommend an external USB DAC connected with an USB Isolator, this is as good as it gets and 100% bullet proof. Likewise, one can use an USB to SPDIF bridge with TOSLINK output and a DAC with TOSLINK input, the optical cable provides full isolation.

 

[Mulder]

I’m guessing this is what you were referring to (from the Audiophonics reviews):

No, it wasn't one of the reviews on the Audiophinic website that made me ask the question. (The reason was more about the fact that, as I said, I perceived Audiophonics as "serious". But now I have become aware that even RME sells power supplies for their HiFi DACs, whose real utility is questionable.) It was in a completely different forum that I read about this. The person in question had another silver bullet: even his 9-year-old son had heard the difference immediately

 

[Purité Audio]

They sell nonsense like this:

FURUTECH LINEFLUX NCF Interconnect Cables RCA OCC Copper NCF 1.2m (Pair) - Audiophonics

With the LindFlux NCF, Furutech delivers a beautiful high-end RCA cable. This one ensures a perfect transmission of the signal, thanks to carefully selected materials, to a cryogenic treatment but also to the NCF material developed by the brand.

www.audiophonics.fr

Most audio shops sell BS in one form or another. They have to pay the bills somehow.

Not all though.
Keith