Power supplies

[catman]

I am barely getting into computer audio (less than a few months of learning and experience).

One of the things I often read is recommendations for power supplies. For example, I just ordered a SOtM SMS 200 based on the recommendations here, and when one reads other reviews, they always mention the need to upgrade its power supply.

However, I already have a decent power conditioner into which all my components are plugged. Given that the wall wart power supply associated with my new device will be plugged into the power conditioner, is there any value add in acquiring an improved power supply?

 

[amirm]

In general, no. Where power supply contributions are often measureable, they are just not an audible concern. Sometimes changing power supply can even make things worse!

And oh, your power conditioner doesn't do anything either. I actually have that monster power and used to use it just as a power strip and power meter. Cleaning up AC power is very difficult. Fortunately our electronics run on much lower voltage DC, making it very easy to filter out noise.

 

[catman]

Thank you! You've saved me a ton of money again! I wish this forum was around when the nifty salesman at the Good Guys hard sold that Monster to me years ago. He also sold me a monster of a voltage stabilizer, but that died a few years ago. I almost injured my back hauling it to the recycling place!

 

[trl]

Wondering if there's a "fish oil" thread or maybe sort of "myth: false or plausible" thread?

It's about products like http://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-...I0tEHf5GVi6W7jiuL4yJnQWlBl_Vdhiy0FZiKWo#tab-0 that can't possible prove the the costs can justify the improvement in output sound (if any).

Thank you!

 

[FooYatChong]

It's about products like http://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-...I0tEHf5GVi6W7jiuL4yJnQWlBl_Vdhiy0FZiKWo#tab-0

They sure deserve a reward for expensive ugliness.

 

[RayDunzl]

Wondering if there's a "fish oil" thread or maybe sort of "myth: false or plausible" thread?

I don't think there's a single thread with that topic. If there is, it died a peaceful death.

Individual threads often cover that territory as folks pop up with amusing ideas along the way.

It's about products like http://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-...I0tEHf5GVi6W7jiuL4yJnQWlBl_Vdhiy0FZiKWo#tab-0

Did you see the video review?

.

 

[SIY]

When I talked to them at AXPONA a couple years ago, they made a big deal about how all the wires from the inlet to the plugs were the same length. "This insures coherence." God knows you don't want incoherent power.

 

[trl]

Did you see the video review?

After all, it does look impressive inside. Of course, it depends on the furniture you got at home.

"This insures coherence." God knows you don't want incoherent power.

Can you ask them if it does re-clocking for the mains? I've heard that having the same clock for main's sine-waves, on both DAC and amp, could improve the sound. Of course, power cords for DAC and amp should have the exact same length, because electrons speed could get your system out of phase. (sorry, couldn't get anything better)

 

[Tidaliser]

I have a topping D50 DAC that has an external DC input to power it, I tried all sorts of USB of power adaptors, a mobile phone battery pack i.e. running off pure battery and I couldn't hear any difference at all. I eventually through some sort of odd peace of mind settled on a ifi USB power supply that suppose-ably uses Opamps to invert the switch mode power supply noise that will cancel it out and gives a better result than a regulated supply. After installing the ifi USB supply I still couldn't hear any difference. Although I guess if your amp / DAC as poor power conditioning circuitry then having a clean PSU might help?

 

[bravomail]

Power conditioning of AC supposed to reduce surges and other power instabilities. UPS with big battery usually resolve such issues - if you have it. In most countries - you don't.
I had issues with my treadmill - whenever it was running, my WifFi router would die. So I had to put 2 power strips - one for treadmill and another for the router. Only that solved the issue - 1 power strip did not cut it.
Now, to the issue of audio and good power supply. Many cheaper audio equipment vendors supply their product with equally cheap and weak DC power supply. FX Audio X6 comes to mind. 12V 1A. It has been proven that replacing such power supply with 12V 3A (or better) will improve the sound. Another example could be wildly popular Topping DX3Pro, which in its first iterations had bigger chunkier power supply, but now sells with tiny piece. 15V 1A. I would spend 10-15 dol for a better power supply there, especially since this device has headphone out. DACs tend to not care about power supplies, and many run on USB power alone. Headphone amps do need good juicy power.

 

[invaderzim]

Did you see the video review?

Someone with a good psychology background really needs to study this stuff. From the part of the video I could make it through there was a lot of bragging going on. Everyone likes to have something that they know a lot about, that that have better than most people.
Is that part of what drives this junk? The 'listen to me talk about what I have and what I know about it' and the 'I know a few buzzwords and I'm going to use them and you are going to be impressed' which also plays into the classic 'I can hear it, I feel bad that you can't' or 'my system is good enough I can hear it, it is a shame yours isn't'.
This is a world where people who make videos espousing the value of some of these things are small time celebrities with a lot of power to make products sell "So just sit back and let me talk authoritatively about this product and when I am done bask in my glow."

 

[trl]

I have a topping D50 DAC that has an external DC input to power it, I tried all sorts of USB of power adaptors, a mobile phone battery pack i.e. running off pure battery and I couldn't hear any difference at all. I eventually through some sort of odd peace of mind settled on a ifi USB power supply that suppose-ably uses Opamps to invert the switch mode power supply noise that will cancel it out and gives a better result than a regulated supply. After installing the ifi USB supply I still couldn't hear any difference. Although I guess if your amp / DAC as poor power conditioning circuitry then having a clean PSU might help?

There's probably nothing to improve to D50, right? It already measures way better than most audio devices from the same price range.

Mobile phone battery pack (USB power bank) has creepy SMPS boost converters inside and it's very noisy. Also, the spikes generated might actually decrease the quality of the audio device powered through such power bank.

In the case of D50, and probably of most audio devices powered through one single-rail voltage power brick, there should be inside couple of low-noise boost-converters. If those boost-converters are noisy (or badly designed PCB), then the external power brick shouldn't help as much as we would think.

 

[gvl]

Wondering if there's a "fish oil" thread or maybe sort of "myth: false or plausible" thread?

It's about products like http://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-...I0tEHf5GVi6W7jiuL4yJnQWlBl_Vdhiy0FZiKWo#tab-0 that can't possible prove the the costs can justify the improvement in output sound (if any).

Thank you!

The visible yellow metal must be real gold at those prices.

 

[MRC01]

I was going to ask about comparing the engineering benefits of conventional (linear DC) versus switched mode power supplies. If the switching supply has high enough frequency (say, an octave or more above audible range), could it out-perform a conventional power supply?

 

[SIY]

I was going to ask about comparing the engineering benefits of conventional (linear DC) versus switched mode power supplies. If the switching supply has high enough frequency (say, an octave or more above audible range), could it out-perform a conventional power supply?

I have one of Jan Didden's Silent Switchers, and it outperforms every DC supply I have in house.

 

[MRC01]

If I read his graph properly, the worst case ripple is -123 dB from DC to about 100 Hz and improving slightly at higher frequencies. With an output impedance <= 0.1 Ohm.
Put differently, 1 microVolt of ripple on a 15V supply.

 

[bravomail]

If the switching supply has high enough frequency (say, an octave or more above audible range), could it out-perform a conventional power supply?

I've seen video reviews from Stalker where he had issues with transformer based PSU. Something to do with secondary coil not being proper. Switching PS beat that transformer PS fair and square.

 

[Tidaliser]

Someone with a good psychology background really needs to study this stuff. From the part of the video I could make it through there was a lot of bragging going on. Everyone likes to have something that they know a lot about, that that have better than most people.
Is that part of what drives this junk? The 'listen to me talk about what I have and what I know about it' and the 'I know a few buzzwords and I'm going to use them and you are going to be impressed' which also plays into the classic 'I can hear it, I feel bad that you can't' or 'my system is good enough I can hear it, it is a shame yours isn't'.
This is a world where people who make videos espousing the value of some of these things are small time celebrities with a lot of power to make products sell. So just sit back and let me talk authoritatively about this product and when I am done bask in my glow.

I think there's plenty of snake oil with audio components and opinions are subjective but in a way this is what makes audio in general fun, a while back I was reading how an audiophile apparently improved his sound stage and quality by de-populating his Windows registry - really? perhaps it did make some difference but I'm thinking nah all in all it's just fun. We all want the latest and greatest whatever, if you didn't then you wouldn't be here, you'd be satisfied with listening to perhaps a valve driven radio from the 1940's

 

[trl]

I was going to ask about comparing the engineering benefits of conventional (linear DC) versus switched mode power supplies. If the switching supply has high enough frequency (say, an octave or more above audible range), could it out-perform a conventional power supply?

It's easier usually to achieve a lower noise & ripple PSU going linear than switched. Also, using an isolation transformer helps to reduce noise as well.

 

[SIY]

It's easier usually to achieve a lower noise & ripple PSU going linear than switched. Also, using an isolation transformer helps to reduce noise as well.

And yet the absolutely quietest supply on my bench is a switcher of relatively simple design...