power supplies for streamers

[Prana Ferox]

Citation needed I would say.

I had a Soncoz DAC that apparently needed a beefier power supply than I gave it. It chattered its relays and died in short order. That had a huge impact in sound quality, by not outputting any sound.

Beyond that I am also skeptical

 

[kemmler3D]

However, I do think I could pass a blind test on that one.

From time to time I have heard things that (if they were real) I could easily pass a blind test on. They were not real. If you spend enough time twiddling knobs with the ability to defeat the effect, eventually you will find yourself accidentally twiddling yourself into an audible illusion with nothing happening to the signal.

This thread has some stories along those lines. A lot of them from professional contexts, for what it's worth.

Not saying what you heard from swapping the PSU wasn't because of the PSU, but the brain can produce fairly distinct changes in sound quality all by itself.

Anyway, if you have the means and time to record the output of that streamer with the old / new PSU, it would be really interesting if there really is a big difference in noise or anything else.

 

[EERecordist]

A DC supply should be properly designed to filter out interference and minimize any AC riding along with the DC to a very small number

Usually where the DC plug enters the chassis there is a filter. Any DC supply AC noise throughout the entire circuit is bypassed before each analog gain block. The DAC reference voltage supply is similarly filtered. That helps to keep the digital noise out of the analog circuit.

A supply has to be above a certain power sized by the streamer, DAC, amplifier, etc, component. If the supply is not delivering enough power, harmonics caused by the start of clipping are generated and rapidly increase. That gives the knee curve of power on the horizontal axis and distortion on the vertical axis shown in the ASR test panel.

Those are the only things in the physics of the situation, as many have said.

 

[akamatsu]

From time to time I have heard things that (if they were real) I could easily pass a blind test on. They were not real. If you spend enough time twiddling knobs with the ability to defeat the effect, eventually you will find yourself accidentally twiddling yourself into an audible illusion with nothing happening to the signal.

This thread has some stories along those lines. A lot of them from professional contexts, for what it's worth.

Not saying what you heard from swapping the PSU wasn't because of the PSU, but the brain can produce fairly distinct changes in sound quality all by itself.

Anyway, if you have the means and time to record the output of that streamer with the old / new PSU, it would be really interesting if there really is a big difference in noise or anything else.

The old power supply is long gone. It stayed with the dealer when the new was installed. I'm not big into comparing in any kind of a controlled way. I did that years (decades) ago. I just enjoy listening to music. But being an engineer, I do like to understand how things work, and why this sounds better than that. Also being an engineer, I understand that the engineers who designed my kit know a lot more than I about all this. I trust that they did their testing etc. This is what engineers do.

 

[kemmler3D]

Also being an engineer, I understand that the engineers who designed my kit know a lot more than I about all this. I trust that they did their testing etc. This is what engineers do.

Yes, but engineers also sometimes build things (properly, tested, etc.) just because the marketing department asks them to, not because it serves any rational functional purpose. Just saying...

 

[akamatsu]

More in line with the OP's query, I recall a few decades ago the hifi dealer showing me his Sony Walkman Pro being powered by a Naim power supply. He claimed an improvement in sound quality. This was replacing a wall wart with an engineered component that was a power supply for Naim's pre-amps I believe.

 

[akamatsu]

Yes, but engineers also sometimes build things (properly, tested, etc.) just because the marketing department asks them to, not because it serves any rational functional purpose. Just saying...

Yes. I avoid those companies.

 

[MAB]

More in line with the OP's query, I recall a few decades ago the hifi dealer showing me his Sony Walkman Pro being powered by a Naim power supply. He claimed an improvement in sound quality. This was replacing a wall wart with an engineered component that was a power supply for Naim's pre-amps I believe.

Thanks for the anecdote.
I have a Sony D6C and SBM mic preamp A2D converter.
I run them off batteries for remote recording, no cleaner power supply than that. When power is available, I use simple wall warts to power the rig.
There is not one iota of sound difference between battery and wall wart. If there was, it would be because the gear has design issues.

Did you believe the hifi dealer that alleged the Naim made a difference? If you did, likely you have no idea how to avoid:

Yes. I avoid those companies.

So you know, Naim is the exemplar of power supply BS.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

More in line with the OP's query, I recall a few decades ago the hifi dealer showing me his Sony Walkman Pro being powered by a Naim power supply. He claimed an improvement in sound quality. This was replacing a wall wart with an engineered component that was a power supply for Naim's pre-amps I believe.

OK, so Naim are interesting. They used to sell products where the preamplifier (e.g. 42) was powered off of the power amplifier (e.g. 110). The earliest upgrade was a "Snap" which was a standalone power supply for the preamplifier.

 

[akamatsu]

OK, so Naim are interesting. They used to sell products where the preamplifier (e.g. 42) was powered off of the power amplifier (e.g. 110). The earliest upgrade was a "Snap" which was a standalone power supply for the preamplifier.

Thanks for jogging my memory. It was the SNAP power supply.

 

[akamatsu]

Thanks for the anecdote.
I have a Sony D6C and SBM mic preamp A2D converter.
I run them off batteries for remote recording, no cleaner power supply than that. When power is available, I use simple wall warts to power the rig.
There is not one iota of sound difference between battery and wall wart. If there was, it would be because the gear has design issues.

Did you believe the hifi dealer that alleged the Naim made a difference? If you did, likely you have no idea how to avoid:

So you know, Naim is the exemplar of power supply BS.

Thank you for the anecdote. I'll treat it as another data point. Anecdotal evidence is still evidence.

 

[MAB]

Thank you for the anecdote.

Cool, I would now go and read up on all of the tests at ASR that demonstrate how useless power supplies are on properly designed gear.
I would provide measurements to support my anecdote if I felt there was new science on the interaction of power supplies.

The alternative seems to be legitimizing this:

$1200 on craigslist, battery is extra. I recommend fuses, especially if this is hooked up to even more expensive gear, and especially if you intend to keep it open on a piece of pine.

Altmann BYOB Attraction DAC - electronics - by owner - sale - craigslist

Up for sale is a tuneful sounding Altmann Attraction NOS DAC offered by the original owner. If you value truthful tonal presentation of music, this dac may be the ticket.Upgraded to its highest...

portland.craigslist.org

 

[akamatsu]

Cool, I would now go and read up on all of the tests at ASR that demonstrate how useless power supplies are on properly designed gear.
I would provide measurements to support my anecdote if I felt there was new science on the interaction of power supplies.

The alternative seems to be legitimizing this:

$1200 on craigslist, battery is extra. I recommend fuses, especially if this is hooked up to even more expensive gear, and especially if you intend to keep it open on a piece of pine.

Altmann BYOB Attraction DAC - electronics - by owner - sale - craigslist

Up for sale is a tuneful sounding Altmann Attraction NOS DAC offered by the original owner. If you value truthful tonal presentation of music, this dac may be the ticket.Upgraded to its highest...

portland.craigslist.org

Properly designed gear have power supplies. So I wouldn't consider them useless.

 

[voodooless]

Yes. I avoid those companies.

How do you know?

 

[MAB]

Properly designed gear have power supplies. So I wouldn't consider them useless.

Playing word games with me online isn't useful

 

[akamatsu]

Playing word games with me online isn't useful

Sorry for that misunderstanding, but my intent wasn't to play word games. Perhaps I don't know what you mean exactly by "power supply." I'm talking about the one that's inside the kit, and replacing it with one of better design/performance.

 

[akamatsu]

How do you know?

I think it's pretty obvious in the marketing copy and in the products/types of products they sell. And, I simply don't even consider buying anything. My system is well down the road and in a couple of weeks will be top of the line. I'm not in the market for anything.

 

[akamatsu]

The OP was asking if replacing their streamer's power supply with a better one would improve sound. I shared my experience with upgrading the power supply in my streamer, and that it made a big improvement in sound quality. Of course it's a completely different piece of kit and most likely a very different price point. But the OP can make the call as to whether or not the information I provided is helpful or even relevant. Makes no difference to me either way.

 

[Verig]

Cool, I would now go and read up on all of the tests at ASR that demonstrate how useless power supplies are on properly designed gear.
I would provide measurements to support my anecdote if I felt there was new science on the interaction of power supplies.

The alternative seems to be legitimizing this:

$1200 on craigslist, battery is extra. I recommend fuses, especially if this is hooked up to even more expensive gear, and especially if you intend to keep it open on a piece of pine.

Altmann BYOB Attraction DAC - electronics - by owner - sale - craigslist

Up for sale is a tuneful sounding Altmann Attraction NOS DAC offered by the original owner. If you value truthful tonal presentation of music, this dac may be the ticket.Upgraded to its highest...

portland.craigslist.org

Hah, I've seen this bad boy in action with car battery. Pretty absurd stuff.

 

[akamatsu]

From time to time I have heard things that (if they were real) I could easily pass a blind test on. They were not real. If you spend enough time twiddling knobs with the ability to defeat the effect, eventually you will find yourself accidentally twiddling yourself into an audible illusion with nothing happening to the signal.

This thread has some stories along those lines. A lot of them from professional contexts, for what it's worth.

Not saying what you heard from swapping the PSU wasn't because of the PSU, but the brain can produce fairly distinct changes in sound quality all by itself.

Anyway, if you have the means and time to record the output of that streamer with the old / new PSU, it would be really interesting if there really is a big difference in noise or anything else.

If for even a moment I find myself trying to hear a difference, there's no difference. I only deal in obvious differences with technical merit to back up the difference. Expectation bias can waste a lot of time and money.