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Power Cords and Sound

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Ingenieur

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I wanted a shorter cord for my amp. OEM was fine, 16 AWG, but 2 meters. I only wanted 1 meter and did not want to cut the OEM up.

Bought a 14 AWG extension cord with angled flush plug and a Hubbell IEC. Both from Amazon. Cut cord to length, installed IEC, 1/2 the length plus a larger gauge.
$15 total.
 

Descartes

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Hilarious people get swindle out of their money by unscrupulous companies. Audiophiles are known to be believers and unfortunately often are so biased that dealers abuses them and laugh all the way to the bank with their $$$$$
 

jsrtheta

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They do -- unless the amp is a McIntosh. McIntosh fans know that Mac's engineers have already spec'd the most appropriate power cords for them. Well... most of them do, at any rate.
see, e.g., https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-power-cords-for-mcintosh-equipment.792394/
Some makers spell out in their manuals that the power cord you get with the piece is fine, and you certainly don't need to spend additional money. I've also seen statements about there being no need for power conditioners.
 

Descartes

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Some makers spell out in their manuals that the power cord you get with the piece is fine, and you certainly don't need to spend additional money. I've also seen statements about there being no need for power conditioners.
The honest ones few and far between!
 

keith_h

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This is a vexed topic. Kudos to the OP who surely must have known he was going to get flamed for making such an admission.

I'll also admit to using initially for the purpose of an experiment. In my case using a WAudio cable, possibly the least expensive of these things available. It comes with no specs, makes no claims, looks like these things look which is like a garden hose with a coke can at each end. They are a nuisance to neatly install it must be said.

Following installation I thought I heard an improvement so I swapped it over to the sub. I thought the sub sounded better so I left it there and bought another - so now there are two of these things in play.

My wife who knew nothing about the cables said it sounded better, did I do something...

Anyway, I've not bothered trying to work out whats going on, how do you measure such a thing in a listening environment? If my wife is happy so am I.

So no evidence, just an observation - someone unaware of the change thought they heard some difference. Maybe it was because the coffee table got moved, who can say. ;)
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I changed my brand of toilet paper and got a raise at work. I'm sure these two events are connected. :D
 

Spkrdctr

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Did Simpson ever make a meter that wasn't analog? This thing takes 8 batteries--two D cells and six AA cells.

(By the way, I do also have a Fluke DVM, but sometimes the Simpson is just handier. And a mechanical needle shows things a digital readout doesn't always.)

I do need to DeOxit the rotary switches on that scope, though.

Rick "no computer required" Denney
DeOxit is the handy mans friend! When I was working a bench ages ago, I had a can at all times.
 

solderdude

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This is a vexed topic. Kudos to the OP who surely must have known he was going to get flamed for making such an admission.

I'll also admit to using initially for the purpose of an experiment. In my case using a WAudio cable, possibly the least expensive of these things available. It comes with no specs, makes no claims, looks like these things look which is like a garden hose with a coke can at each end. They are a nuisance to neatly install it must be said.

Following installation I thought I heard an improvement so I swapped it over to the sub. I thought the sub sounded better so I left it there and bought another - so now there are two of these things in play.

My wife who knew nothing about the cables said it sounded better, did I do something...

Anyway, I've not bothered trying to work out whats going on, how do you measure such a thing in a listening environment? If my wife is happy so am I.

So no evidence, just an observation - someone unaware of the change thought they heard some difference. Maybe it was because the coffee table got moved, who can say. ;)

An anecdotal (and true) story about a loudspeaker cable swap I experienced in my previous job as service engineer for a (former) high-end audio store. (not about a power cable swap)

As a service engineer in a small company I also had to install equipment for customers in their homes.
One fine day a customer had bought an expensive cable upgrade for his way better than average music system. The customer was in the music business is all I will say and he shall remain unnamed.

The following is what the CUSTOMER experienced. It is my free interpretation of how he was thinking based on his reactions and remarks.

Even though I wanted to see what the technician was doing he asked me to sit in my carefully positioned listening chair and not move around so I could hear for myself what the changes are in sound quality. This could be quite easy as I know this system and the music inside out and any change will be obvious. If I can NOT tell the difference the salesman had stated I could return the cable and there would be no financial loss.

First I listened to the old cable for a while, it sounded ‘as usual’. After the technician had changed the cables I listened again and the changes were not even subtle but the sound improved clearly. After enjoying the music the technician wanted to put back the old cable to verify the change that occured.
Old cable was installed again… old sound back too so the cables appear to be real upgrade.
After several seconds I already pleated to immediately put the new cables back in there.. How could I have been satisfied with this sound all this time… I should have upgraded sooner !.

The technician put in the new cables again .. Ah there is the excellent sound again and will likely have to revisit all my music again.

What to do with the old cables he asked ?… garbage can of course.


The following is what ACTUALLY happened that day:

I told the customer I wanted to show the improvements the cables made to him and asked him to sit in his chair and put on some music he knew well.
The amplifier did have an A-B speaker output which I could use to switch between cables but as the expensive cable could be returned when the customer did NOT hear any improvements it would not be wise to connect both cables and switch between A and B for obvious reasons.

I told the customer I was going to change the cable while he remained in his chair.

First listen was with the old cable… nothing unexpected came from that.

Next I routed the new cable and moved the amplifier a bit as well as sitting behind the heavy speakers pretending to connect the cable but in fact ONLY routed the cable and left the old one connected.
I didn’t even touch the connectors.

The customer put on some music and the ‘change’ was quite noticeable to him and he listened to it for a while.
He was very pleased with the results thinking (to him knowing) he was actually listening to his new cable.

I proposed to check his findings by connecting the old cable and have a listen again to make sure he heard it correctly. This time, however, I connected the new cable while the CUSTOMER was thinking he was going to listen to his old, and clearly inferior, cable.

Indeed to the customer the ‘old familiar and inferior sound’ was back and already within seconds he asked me to switch back. The change was dramatic and wanted the new cable back on there.
In reality he was now listening to the new cable for the first time.

The customer wanted his new cable back in there. So I pretended to swap cables again while doing no such thing in reality.

I told him the new cable was connected again and took away the old cable.

He listened again and immediately noticed the improvements. He was not ever going to use those old cables again and was putting on different music to listen some more !

He paid for the cable and thanked me for the demonstration…

Everybody was happy that day.

The customer for the obvious sonic improvement, the demonstration he got as well as the free delivery and installation.

I am, for the generous tip he handed me for services provided, and above all the pleasure of experimenting on unsuspecting people with excellent hearing in the comfort of their own home and familiar with the system. Of course he still doesn’t know and will gladly tell everyone about the noteworthy improvements he clearly heard when swapping cables.

My boss is happy for making the sale so he can smoke another Cuban cigar.
I have to add that returning cables was standard policy when buying a cable and there was a big sign in the shop stating cables could be returned when no improvements were heard.
In the 7 years I worked there not a single customer EVER returned a cable. And there were some pretty expensive ones amongst them. So either everyone hears it or they don’t but do not want to be laughed at behind their back or figure a better cable can’t hurt.

The importer and manufacturer of the cable are also thankful because of the big profit margin.
 

voodooless

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An anecdotal (and true) story about a loudspeaker cable swap I experienced in my previous job as service engineer for a (former) high-end audio store. (not about a power cable swap)

As a service engineer in a small company I also had to install equipment for customers in their homes.
One fine day a customer had bought an expensive cable upgrade for his way better than average music system. The customer was in the music business is all I will say and he shall remain unnamed.

The following is what the CUSTOMER experienced. It is my free interpretation of how he was thinking based on his reactions and remarks.

Even though I wanted to see what the technician was doing he asked me to sit in my carefully positioned listening chair and not move around so I could hear for myself what the changes are in sound quality. This could be quite easy as I know this system and the music inside out and any change will be obvious. If I can NOT tell the difference the salesman had stated I could return the cable and there would be no financial loss.

First I listened to the old cable for a while, it sounded ‘as usual’. After the technician had changed the cables I listened again and the changes were not even subtle but the sound improved clearly. After enjoying the music the technician wanted to put back the old cable to verify the change that occured.
Old cable was installed again… old sound back too so the cables appear to be real upgrade.
After several seconds I already pleated to immediately put the new cables back in there.. How could I have been satisfied with this sound all this time… I should have upgraded sooner !.

The technician put in the new cables again .. Ah there is the excellent sound again and will likely have to revisit all my music again.

What to do with the old cables he asked ?… garbage can of course.


The following is what ACTUALLY happened that day:

I told the customer I wanted to show the improvements the cables made to him and asked him to sit in his chair and put on some music he knew well.
The amplifier did have an A-B speaker output which I could use to switch between cables but as the expensive cable could be returned when the customer did NOT hear any improvements it would not be wise to connect both cables and switch between A and B for obvious reasons.

I told the customer I was going to change the cable while he remained in his chair.

First listen was with the old cable… nothing unexpected came from that.

Next I routed the new cable and moved the amplifier a bit as well as sitting behind the heavy speakers pretending to connect the cable but in fact ONLY routed the cable and left the old one connected.
I didn’t even touch the connectors.

The customer put on some music and the ‘change’ was quite noticeable to him and he listened to it for a while.
He was very pleased with the results thinking (to him knowing) he was actually listening to his new cable.

I proposed to check his findings by connecting the old cable and have a listen again to make sure he heard it correctly. This time, however, I connected the new cable while the CUSTOMER was thinking he was going to listen to his old, and clearly inferior, cable.

Indeed to the customer the ‘old familiar and inferior sound’ was back and already within seconds he asked me to switch back. The change was dramatic and wanted the new cable back on there.
In reality he was now listening to the new cable for the first time.

The customer wanted his new cable back in there. So I pretended to swap cables again while doing no such thing in reality.

I told him the new cable was connected again and took away the old cable.

He listened again and immediately noticed the improvements. He was not ever going to use those old cables again and was putting on different music to listen some more !

He paid for the cable and thanked me for the demonstration…

Everybody was happy that day.

The customer for the obvious sonic improvement, the demonstration he got as well as the free delivery and installation.

I am, for the generous tip he handed me for services provided, and above all the pleasure of experimenting on unsuspecting people with excellent hearing in the comfort of their own home and familiar with the system. Of course he still doesn’t know and will gladly tell everyone about the noteworthy improvements he clearly heard when swapping cables.

My boss is happy for making the sale so he can smoke another Cuban cigar.
I have to add that returning cables was standard policy when buying a cable and there was a big sign in the shop stating cables could be returned when no improvements were heard.
In the 7 years I worked there not a single customer EVER returned a cable. And there were some pretty expensive ones amongst them. So either everyone hears it or they don’t but do not want to be laughed at behind their back or figure a better cable can’t hurt.

The importer and manufacturer of the cable are also thankful because of the big profit margin.
Moral of the story: you have none :facepalm:;):cool:
 

solderdude

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Moral of the story: you have none :facepalm:;):cool:

Moral of the story:
Seller and customer are very happy with the 'cable upgrade' of the customer. And I learned something along the way.

edit: note I did not sell these cables, was only asked to install them.
 
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caught gesture

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Moral of the story:
Seller and customer are very happy with the 'cable upgrade' of the customer.
I guess that depends on your moral position. Cognitive bias is easily used to fool people so let me take advantage of it, or more people should be made aware of how easily they are fooled and let me educate them.
 

Booker

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No cord, no sound!
 

Ingenieur

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On old trick of HVAC control system installers were 'dummy' thermostats. Used mostly in offices and classrooms. People were always complaining but things were at set point. They were shown with a digital thermometer. Still whining.
Energy conservation/management was a big thing and control of the set point limited. So fake t-stats were used. They did nothing...but stop the complaining.

People are good at convincing themselves of false things. It is the easy way out. Buy a $5000 power cord and hear nothing!? No one will tell themselves that, ego, no one wants to tell themselves they we stupid.

The truth? Not so easy.


 

rdenney

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Moral of the story:
Seller and customer are very happy with the 'cable upgrade' of the customer.
Markets work without distortion only when the market can make educated and informed choices among competitors. If a charlatan succeeds in hoodwinking a customer into being happy with a snake-oil product, we can hardly say the market spoke with a clear voice.

Of course, some customers seek to hide themselves from education and information so completely that one could argue they are complicit in the deception. But that's like blaming a rape victim on the basis of having been dressed provocatively.

Rick "'thou shalt not bear false witness'" Denney
 

mhardy6647

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I changed my brand of toilet paper and got a raise at work. I'm sure these two events are connected. :D
They are indeed - and as you know - correlated :)

correlation.png


FWIW, I think that the market for aftermarket wires is fine in the sense that, as long as the wires work, the consumer is making a choice to buy them and the price, and therefore the value, is in the eye of the beholder. If the end-user's happier with, say, a $500 USD wire, than the factory equivalent -- that's OK with me (I am kind of a libertarian).
I mean, heck, people choose $100,000 USD SUVs to commute to work. Who am I to suggest that there may be more cost-effective ways to achieve a desired end?

PS when it comes to the BMW vs. Ford debate -- I decided to go Ford and retire at age 56 rather than go BMW and work 'til I die to support an expensive car habit. ;) (full disclosure, I now drive a Subaru -- I don't like it very much, but it was cheap and it is fit-for-purpose) :cool:
 

Ingenieur

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I don't intend to cast aspersions against the 'cable crowd'. Most are good guys, funny, passionate and decent. I do not demean their intellect, only question their understanding of the subject matter.

But the bottom line: none of my business. I just irks me that SOME are getting snowed.
Some may make unwise impulse purchases with $ that is tight. Again, not my business.

I look at it like any hobby, Lego's, models, etc.,financial considerations are moot, it's about personal satisfaction and enjoyment regardless if there are any tangible benefits.
 

voodooless

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Yes, but sometimes the market forces your hand. I have been there many years ago......
Well, it was an observation, not a condemnation ;) I might have done the same thing.
 
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