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Power cables for active speakers - do they matter?

Avp1

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I always was skeptical about influence of power cables on sound from well designed audio equipment. My EE education background also made me to believe that all things can be measured. Recently I attended a listening session where we - five members of local audiophile club, compared sound of several "high end audio" power cables. System where we tested them was what I would call mid-range audiophile class setup. All cables (with one exception) were from major brands which are usually advertised in audio related publications. We listened five tracks - each was selected by attending person. What surprised me was that I did hear the difference in sound in all of them. The fact that 4 out of 5 people explained what they heard exactly with the same words surprised me even more. This was not a dealer presentation, so there was no push to choose a specific cable. Actually Chinese knock off version of one of major brands purchased from Ali Express came second and most expensive cable came the dead last.

After that experience, I decided to do my own testing. I use active speakers - ATC SCM100A, where amplifier is located inside each speaker. ATC is a well respected brand and I honestly thought that I would not experience anything similar to what I heard at session described above where audiophile kind amplifiers were in play. Also unlike host of the session, I have a dedicated 30A power line from distribution box to my music room, which should reduce any power related differences even more.

I did not want to spend a lot of money: I needed two cables - one for each speaker. I also wanted to make sure that cable does not have something that may intentionally degrade its performance. Thus I decided to make cables myself from parts I could buy individually. From quick search I found wire and connectors made by Supra Cables - company in Sweden, which specializes on all kind of cable products. They advertise their power cables as the only "audio grade" ones which are UL listed to confirm their safety. I ordered 20 feet of Lorad mains wire plus 5-15P and C13 connectors made by the same company. I did assembly myself, which was rather easy and saved me $30 per cable in cost.

When I finished that assembly work late evening, I replaced my standard 15A rated cables used for ATC speakers before with this newly made ones. I did a quick listen and I felt that there was some difference, but I was not sure if this is a real thing or imagination. I did listen few tracks and went to sleep.

Next day I decided to test if what I hear is a real thing or not. I invited my wife, who does not really into audio hobby but did have some formal music education, to join me for a test session. I selected 5 tracks which I know relatively well, and which represent different kind of sound for this testing. I played track for 3 minutes, then swapped cables, played track again. Then played another track, swap cables again and repeat that tracks. This protocol reduced number of cable swaps and randomized experience a bit since same cable was used for two tracks without swapping.

Both me an my wife agreed that there was a difference between two cables. That difference was consistent throughout all tracks we played and we had the same words to explain what we heard: New cable made sound a bit more transparent, like the scene you see when you clear your glasses. Spacial details like reverb tails were better heard with new cables. This is not what I expected from ATC speakers, but that was real and confirmed by someone who has no stakes in that game.

Tell me: how to quantify that? This is a serious question.
 
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We listened five tracks - each was selected by attending person. What surprised me was that I did hear the difference in sound in all of them. The fact that 4 out of 5 people explained what they heard exactly with the same words surprised me even more.
What was the setup, what controls were used?
Tell me: how to quantify that?
Expectation bias... and without being rude at all possibly a little bit of partner appeasement. ;)


JSmith
 
Note that not all original equipment and aftermarket AC cords are well manufactured.
Some problems:
a) missing (or not connected) Safety Ground wire.
b) swapped Neutral & Safety Ground wires.
c) poorly crimped wire stranded.
d) poorly machined contacts.
 
possibly a little bit of partner appeasement. ;)


JSmith

You can exclude that. I did not explain what I heard to my wife before she explained what was the difference from her perspective.

Overall I am now sure there was a difference, the question is how to quantify that and what kind of measurement can detect it.
 
When you have about 40 minutes I recommend watching this YouTube video Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests.

And/or read What is an ABX Test?.

My EE education background also made me to believe that all things can be measured.
I assume you know most power supplies (inside the electronics) are filtered and regulated.

And there is many-feet of wire in your walls and many-miles outside your home making the power cables insignificant (unless they are defective or broken).
 
Note that not all original equipment and aftermarket AC cords are well manufactured.
Some problems:
a) missing (or not connected) Safety Ground wire.
b) swapped Neutral & Safety Ground wires.
c) poorly crimped wire stranded.
d) poorly machined contacts.

This is why I made cables myself. I inspected wire and connectors. All were legit and did not have obvious flaws.
 
I assume you know most power supplies (inside the electronics) are filtered and regulated.

And there is many-feet of wire in your walls and many-miles outside your home making the power cables insignificant (unless they are defective or broken).

Exactly! I did not expect that there will be a difference, especially while using well respected brand of active speakers which does not play audiophile games.
 
Anecdotal wife observation dropped.

Case closed. Full stop.

Wife was what is usually called "control group". In the past she was able to hear the difference in different tube brands in amplifier. Her choice for best tube matched my. But different tubes had distinctly different distortion patterns, so no surprise there.
 
sorry to be blunt, but sighted testing is nonsense, full stop:

I would agree if testing was two way. But in multi-way choice with no advance expectation how each cable should influence sound, testing can be considered valid. Do not forget that most expensive was the worst and this was a common opinion.
 
Unfortunately we don't learn as EEs what the well known confounding issues in sighted listening tests are, and the steps necessary to avoid them. I recommend following the links suggested in post #7 as an introduction to this. You can then look at devising a valid listening test and seeing whether you and/or your friends can really hear the difference. If you can then there's something interesting to learn from further investigation.
 
I would agree if testing was two way. But in multi-way choice with no advance expectation how each cable should influence sound, testing can be considered valid. Do not forget that most expensive was the worst and this was a common opinion.
No it really can't be considered valid. Even unconscious signals by the person running the test have been shown to influence results. Under proper double blind conditions the "effect" always disappears. Don't feel bad, it's very counterintuitive and most of us have had the same experience you're having. Remember that this effect is so strong that placebo drugs have to be packaged exactly the same as the real drugs for trials because the packaging colour can affect the outcome.
 
No it really can't be considered valid. Even unconscious signals by the person running the test have been shown to influence results. Under proper double blind conditions the "effect" always disappears. Don't feel bad, it's very counterintuitive and most of us have had the same experience you're having. Remember that this effect is so strong that placebo drugs have to be packaged exactly the same as the real drugs for trials because the packaging colour can affect the outcome.

We did not know which cables will be tested. Thus no prior expectation. Moreover selection of sequence was completely random and host who swapped cables did not hear them before in his system or elsewhere. Thus there was no preconception what we should hear with each cable change. So I would say that there was a real difference in sound. But there was no control, like cheap stock cable in the bunch. Thus no baseline set at all.
 
Tell me: how to quantify that? This is a serious question.

Anti-subjective squad has already descended here ;)

Wishing you good fun with power cable testing ... all part of the hobby!

For me, I use active Neumanns, and paired them with reasonably priced Belden 19364 power cable (shielded being most important to me).

/
 
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