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Power amp upgrade or not

Most likely expectation bias, sunk cost fallacy, or loudness bias due to improper (or nonexistent) level matching.

A simple phone recording of both Amps loaded into freeware Deltawave would give us answers, but hardly anyone bothers to do even that, being content with their uncontrolled, sighted listening impressions which are inevitably biased and hence useless.
Or, the people who love the Bryston are listening a lot louder than the OP at levels that would clip the PA5. The Bryson 3B has three times the power.

Rick "would could easily imagine clipping the PA5, but probably not at moderate levels in the near field" Denney
 
I can't imagine clipping the pa5ii.

How loud would that be? (Speakers are at about 1m from my ears).

I
 
And how many Toppings can you buy for the price of a Bryston or Mac?
You can buy 30 of the PA5 ii Toppings for the price of the least expensive Bryston stereo class AB amp.

The Topping PA5ii is a toy amplifier with no appreciable power. It's 50wpc@8R and ~70wpc@4R. That's absolute entry level in HiFi. It cannot hope to deliver a useful dynamic range of any dynamic content played at a reasonable volume.

I'd rather pay 30 times the price for a Bryston or McIntosh because I know those things go forever. They are beautifully built and neither brand ever ends up on my bench/lab for repair. And they have actual real continuous power- lots of it.
 
Seems like there are 2 camps here. Some people saying it would be a big upgrade, others saying to trust the measurements and the science.
I guess I could buy a Bryson and sell it if I do not see any increase in sound quality and make my own mind.

It's so hard to find out who to trust on forums.

Keep em coming!
 
The Topping PA5ii is a toy amplifier with no appreciable power. It's 50wpc@8R and ~70wpc@4R. That's absolute entry level in HiFi. It cannot hope to deliver a useful dynamic range of any dynamic content played at a reasonable volume.

I'd rather pay 30 times the price for a Bryston or McIntosh because I know those things go forever. They are beautifully built and neither brand ever ends up on my bench/lab for repair. And they have actual real continuous power- lots of it.
Well yes if you need more power, you need more power. The OP indicated he probably didn't. 50 watts for nearfield monitors is not nothing. If I needed more power, I'd rather buy another class D amp with that power for about 1/4th or 1/5th the money of Bryston. Even Bryston's class D amp is about half the money offering slightly more power than the AB amp. I have a class D amp that is nearing 20 years old in daily use that whole time. I can appreciate nicely built amps, but really if they are in a black box and do their job I need never look at it or think about it. If one does wish to spend Bryston or Mac money they are getting an excellent product.
 
Well yes if you need more power, you need more power. The OP indicated he probably didn't. 50 watts for nearfield monitors is not nothing. If I needed more power, I'd rather buy another class D amp with that power for about 1/4th or 1/5th the money of Bryston. Even Bryston's class D amp is about half the money offering slightly more power than the AB amp. I have a class D amp that is nearing 20 years old in daily use that whole time. I can appreciate nicely built amps, but really if they are in a black box and do their job I need never look at it or think about it. If one does wish to spend Bryston or Mac money they are getting an excellent product.
The thing I'm also wondering now that people are talking about topping being not powerful, is it possible I'm clipping the amp without noticing?

I sometimes monitor at 80-85 dB (that's usually as hi as I will go)
 
Seems like there are 2 camps here. Some people saying it would be a big upgrade, others saying to trust the measurements and the science.
I guess I could buy a Bryson and sell it if I do not see any increase in sound quality and make my own mind.

It's so hard to find out who to trust on forums.

Keep em coming!
Well your choices aren't to buy the Bryston or nothing. There are other more powerful amps. I don't think anyone can claim you will hear a difference unless you use the extra power the Bryston will have. OTOH, take your time, buy one of the Brystons used and if you end up selling it the cost to try it out is not much. You'll know for certain if you think it is worthwhile.
 
Well your choices aren't to buy the Bryston or nothing. There are other more powerful amps. I don't think anyone can claim you will hear a difference unless you use the extra power the Bryston will have. OTOH, take your time, buy one of the Brystons used and if you end up selling it the cost to try it out is not much. You'll know for certain if you think it is worthwhile.
Could go purify or hypex also.

The Bryston / ProAc is just a very popular combo in the studio world, that is why I was referring to Bryson (and I am Canadian)
 
I guess I could buy a Bryson and sell it if I do not see any increase in sound quality and make my own mind.
If for whatever reason you do decide to try the Bryston, please be aware that without proper controls in place (level matching, minimal dead time, blind listening), you're likely to hear something that's not physically there.

Expectation bias is a bitch.

Something like this would be useful here (expensive, I know).

I remain firm in my belief that in a controlled listening test, you'll hear zero difference between the 50W PA5II and some 200W Purifi/Bryston, if all you need is 30W or so for Nearfield listening.

More power does not increase sound quality, only the potential for sound quantity.
 
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The thing I'm also wondering now that people are talking about topping being not powerful, is it possible I'm clipping the amp without noticing?

I sometimes monitor at 80-85 dB (that's usually as hi as I will go)
How are you measuring that 80-85 db. Peak with a fast moving meter, or a slow average? The spec on your speakers was 88 db at 1 meter for 1 watt. If accurate then max power of 50 watts would make peak about 105 db at 1 meter. If you get 200 watts that puts it at 111 db in theory. If you clip something it can get nasty, and a few db can make the difference. If you don't hear it happening, at most it isn't happening very often.
 
If for whatever reason you do decide to try the Bryston, please be aware that without proper controls in place (level matching, minimal dead time, blind listening), you're likely to hear something that's not physically there.

Expectation bias is a bitch.

Something like this would be useful here (expensive, I know).
I do not tend to be influenced by price or brands. These are tools for work, and I actually have cheap gear that I use (if it's good, it's good).
 
Seems like there are 2 camps here. Some people saying it would be a big upgrade, others saying to trust the measurements and the science.
I guess I could buy a Bryson and sell it if I do not see any increase in sound quality and make my own mind.

It's so hard to find out who to trust on forums.

Keep em coming!
People tend to prefer clear, black-and-white discussions -it’s easier to relate to. But as usual, the truth lies somewhere in between.
  • Yes, you can buy 30 small Chinese amplifiers for the price of a single Bryston.
  • Yes, in a blind A/B test, you’d probably struggle to hear any meaningful difference between the two.
  • Yes, the Bryston is objectively a far better-built product.
  • Yes, the Bryston is likely to outlast the smaller, cheaper amplifier.
And people’s preference for quality and tactile feel obviously varies greatly from person to person.

That said, you’re probably closer to the limits of the smaller amplifier than you might realize.
At an average listening level of 85 dB, you’ll need around 50 watts of headroom to handle transient peaks. Add EQ and DSP to that.
 
Could go purify or hypex also.

The Bryston / ProAc is just a very popular combo in the studio world, that is why I was referring to Bryson (and I am Canadian)
You will be getting an excellent amp if you buy it. If this is bothering you, and you can afford it at worst you get peace of mind with a nifty very well built amp.
 
I do not tend to be influenced by price or brands. These are tools for work, and I actually have cheap gear that I use (if it's good, it's good).
Everyone is effected. If you are human, you cannot avoid it. I know it seems wrong, but it is so.
 
How are you measuring that 80-85 db. Peak with a fast moving meter, or a slow average? The spec on your speakers was 88 db at 1 meter for 1 watt. If accurate then max power of 50 watts would make peak about 105 db at 1 meter. If you get 200 watts that puts it at 111 db in theory. If you clip something it can get nasty, and a few db can make the difference. If you don't hear it happening, at most it isn't happening very often.
Slow dB C 80-85.

Most of my work is at 75dB (slow dB C)
 
Everyone is effected. If you are human, you cannot avoid it. I know it seems wrong, but it is so.
I see what you are saying, but I have bought tons of gear for my studio because because every studio "needed" this and that, and in the end, I have sold almost all of it.

I know it's impossible to be objective, but I do a lot better than most studio owners I believe.
 
I do not tend to be influenced by price or brands.
That's an admirable attitude, but it alone sadly does not make one immune to bias and placebo. These things happen unconsciously.

Proper listening controls are the only remedy.

It's something that professionals especially tend to hate, as many think it calls their skills into question (it does not. It's just the way all humans work).
 
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People tend to prefer clear, black-and-white discussions -it’s easier to relate to. But as usual, the truth lies somewhere in between.
  • Yes, you can buy 30 small Chinese amplifiers for the price of a single Bryston.
  • Yes, in a blind A/B test, you’d probably struggle to hear any meaningful difference between the two.
  • Yes, the Bryston is objectively a far better-built product.
  • Yes, the Bryston is likely to outlast the smaller, cheaper amplifier.
And people’s preference for quality and tactile feel obviously varies greatly from person to person.

That said, you’re probably closer to the limits of the smaller amplifier than you might realize.
At an average listening level of 85 dB, you’ll need around 50 watts of headroom to handle transient peaks. Add EQ and DSP to that.
Interesting, seems like a bigger amp could give me "peace of mind" especially when I'm monitoring louder.
 
That's an admirable attitude, but that alone sadly does not make one immune to bias and placebo. These things happen unconsciously.

Proper listening controls are the only remedy.
I do have proper listening control, ABX blind testing methods, measuring microphones to create tests, I always level match when comparing 2 files (kids level match).

I also have methods to switch instentaniously (I never do a test if I cannot compare instantaneously).

But I do understand what you are saying, even after doing this for over 20 years at a pro level, I still fall for some tricks (it's often volume that is not matched)
 
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