Power amp upgrade or not

[Tenkas]

I am currently using a pair of ProAc SM100 as nearfield monitors in my studio.

My current amp is topping PA5ii

A lot of studio are running the ProAc on Bryson 3b sst or 4b sst

I personally like my current setup but I am wondering if it would be a "night and day" difference as some people claim.

Any opinions?

 

[ZolaIII]

It would be 6 to 7.5 + dB. But to hell on earth why? Get a pair of sub's if you already don't use them and so on.

 

[Tenkas]

I already have subs, and I do not monitor very loud, so I have plenty of power with the pa5ii.

It's just that I have never tried a different amp (since I like how it sounds) and I'm curious about the people "raving" about the difference in sound between amps.

 

[staticV3]

I already have subs, and I do not monitor very loud, so I have plenty of power with the pa5ii.

It's just that I have never tried a different amp (since I like how it sounds) and I'm curious about the people "raving" about the difference in sound between amps.

There are only three scenarios in which a new Amp could impact sound quality in your setup:

1. Your PA5II is underpowered and you're clipping it, causing audible distortion where a more powerful Amp would not.
2. Unlike your PA5II, the new Amp is not transparent and imparts its own sound onto your speakers.
3. The new Amp has more output noise, causing speaker hiss where previously there was none.

If both Amps are neutral and none is clipping, then sound quality will stay exactly the same.

 

[Tenkas]

There are only two scenarios in which a new Amp could impact sound quality in your setup:

1. Your PA5II is underpowered and you're clipping it, causing audible distortion.
2. Unlike your PA5II, the new Amp is not transparent and imparts its own sound onto your speakers.

If both Amps are neutral and none is clipping, then sound quality will stay exactly the same.

That's pretty much what I am thinking.

Is it possible the Bryson 3b or 4b are extremely colored? Why do people say that these amps are "night and day" better than other amps with ProAc?

 

[staticV3]

Why do people say that these amps are "night and day" better than other amps with ProAc?

Most likely expectation bias, sunk cost fallacy, or loudness bias due to improper (or nonexistent) level matching.

A simple phone recording of both Amps loaded into freeware Deltawave would give us answers, but hardly anyone bothers to do even that, being content with their uncontrolled, sighted listening impressions which are inevitably biased and hence useless.

 

[Tenkas]

Most likely expectation bias, sunk cost fallacy, or loudness bias due to improper (or nonexistent) level matching.

Thanks for the info.

I'm quite pleased with the Topping amp so I'll save my moneyfor now I guess.

 

[ta240]

I already have subs, and I do not monitor very loud, so I have plenty of power with the pa5ii.

It's just that I have never tried a different amp (since I like how it sounds) and I'm curious about the people "raving" about the difference in sound between amps.

Online raving drives a lot of component sales. I've fallen into that one before myself.

 

[Tenkas]

Online raving drives a lot of component sales. I've fallen into that one before myself.

I think Bryson was probably a logical choice for studios 20 or 30 years ago before (before class D became good).

So people haven't had a chance to try the new class D and lots of studio people like to use the same gear that they are used too.

 

[MaxBuck]

Not.

 

[Chrispy]

Nothing wrong with Bryston particularly, especially if you want more power or a longer warranty. I wouldn't expect any particular SQ difference when amps are used within their capabilities. Sounds like you're fine as is.

 

[Tenkas]

Nothing wrong with Bryston particularly, especially if you want more power or a longer warranty. I wouldn't expect any particular SQ difference when amps are used within their capabilities. Sounds like you're fine as is.

The Bryston looks nice but for the price and energy savings, I'll keep the topping for now.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I think Bryson was probably a logical choice for studios 20 or 30 years ago before (before class D became good).

The fact that they have one of the best warranties in the industry is a huge reason for a lot of people, no different than using Mcintosh.

Let's talk about Topping in 10 years when Bryson is just starting their service life along with 30-year-old Macs and both outlast the Topping.
Both look a heck of a lot better than any Topping I've ever seen. I personally have all three, I'll stick with Bryson for any warranty issue
and Mcintosh is the same way. All almost 52 years for me with Mac and 27 or 8 with Bryson, BOTH are bulletproof. I have a few buddies that
dumped Topping all together behind failures more than once.

I'll admit Topping sounds neutral, but I have NEVER set my sound system up to sound neutral. I can't stand the neutral sound because of my ears
and personal preferences that only tone control will fix on 95% of all the different types of music I listen to. It's like having a preamp with no tone
controls, or balance. There are very few recordings that are perfectly recorded and are pleasing to the listener.

The alternative to not having a way to color the sound usually limits what many people I know listen to. A bass heavy or light track just SUCKS.
The same for music with boiling highs and NO way to adjust it other than throwing a blanket over the tweeter. I've done that just to make it through
visiting friends a few times. People came back into the listening room by covering the tweeter with a towel.

The bottom line is amps do have a sound and some of them plane suck. It's one of the reasons I like a Pass design and valves/tubes, I can listen for
hours vs minutes with many SS amps. Class Ds are not so much, they have a subtle roll-off on the top usually. Atmospheres new class Ds are a wonderful
example of paying attention to his customers and his own ears. Like I said not everyone likes BRIGHT neutral SS amps. I can get away with them many SS
amps (for a while) if the speaker is designed with L-pads and the volume isn't to high. An untreated room ADDS to the boil usually.

Regards

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

The fact that they have one of the best warranties in the industry is a huge reason for a lot of people, no different than using Mcintosh.

Let's talk about Topping in 10 years when Bryson is just starting their service life along with 30-year-old Macs and both outlast the Topping.
Both look a heck of a lot better than any Topping I've ever seen. I personally have all three, I'll stick with Bryson for any warranty issue
and Mcintosh is the same way. All almost 52 years for me with Mac and 27 or 8 with Bryson, BOTH are bulletproof. I have a few buddies that
dumped Topping all together behind failures more than once.

I'll admit Topping sounds neutral, but I have NEVER set my sound system up to sound neutral. I can't stand the neutral sound because of my ears
and personal preferences that only tone control will fix on 95% of all the different types of music I listen to. It's like having a preamp with no tone
controls, or balance. There are very few recordings that are perfectly recorded and are pleasing to the listener.

The alternative to not having a way to color the sound usually limits what many people I know listen to. A bass heavy or light track just SUCKS.
The same for music with boiling highs and NO way to adjust it other than throwing a blanket over the tweeter. I've done that just to make it through
visiting friends a few times. People came back into the listening room by covering the tweeter with a towel.

The bottom line is amps do have a sound and some of them plane suck. It's one of the reasons I like a Pass design and valves/tubes, I can listen for
hours vs minutes with many SS amps. Class Ds are not so much, they have a subtle roll-off on the top usually. Atmospheres new class Ds are a wonderful
example of paying attention to his customers and his own ears. Like I said not everyone likes BRIGHT neutral SS amps. I can get away with them many SS
amps (for a while) if the speaker is designed with L-pads and the volume isn't to high. An untreated room ADDS to the boil usually.

Regards

Singing to the wrong choir

 

[Blumlein 88]

The fact that they have one of the best warranties in the industry is a huge reason for a lot of people, no different than using Mcintosh.

Let's talk about Topping in 10 years when Bryson is just starting their service life along with 30-year-old Macs and both outlast the Topping.
Both look a heck of a lot better than any Topping I've ever seen. I personally have all three, I'll stick with Bryson for any warranty issue
and Mcintosh is the same way. All almost 52 years for me with Mac and 27 or 8 with Bryson, BOTH are bulletproof. I have a few buddies that
dumped Topping all together behind failures more than once.

And how many Toppings can you buy for the price of a Bryston or Mac?
You can buy 30 of the PA5 ii Toppings for the price of the least expensive Bryston stereo class AB amp.

I like good designs, and stuff that lasts a long time. But for someone not yet able to easily afford some of the old Dreadnought gear something like a Topping is not a bad deal. Oh and don't you guys know, Bryston now offers class D amps.

I'll admit Topping sounds neutral, but I have NEVER set my sound system up to sound neutral. I can't stand the neutral sound because of my ears
and personal preferences that only tone control will fix on 95% of all the different types of music I listen to. It's like having a preamp with no tone
controls, or balance. There are very few recordings that are perfectly recorded and are pleasing to the listener.

The alternative to not having a way to color the sound usually limits what many people I know listen to. A bass heavy or light track just SUCKS.
The same for music with boiling highs and NO way to adjust it other than throwing a blanket over the tweeter. I've done that just to make it through
visiting friends a few times. People came back into the listening room by covering the tweeter with a towel.

We have EQ for all that. Plus there is no one coloration that sounds good on every recording. Recordings are bright, dark and all in between. Probably a greater number are bright, but that is an easy (and adjustable) EQ fix. Not having to purchase gear to obtain only one non-neutral sound which if it happens to not fit your recording you can do nothing about it. For a long time I used a Tact unit which held 9 correction curves selectable from the remote. One of the best things for all of your recordings. Set up for neutral and season to taste is so much better than building a colored system which then steers you toward particular recordings that happen to fit that color thereby limiting your musical choices.

"Like I said not everyone likes BRIGHT neutral SS amps."

A rather oxymoronical statement my friend. Neutral is not bright. SS amps aren't bright by nature either. If it sounds bright with a neutral amp then it is the source material or the speaker character.

 

[OldHvyMec]

A rather oxymoronical statement my friend. Neutral is not bright. SS amps aren't bright by nature either.

Well we do have a difference of opinion. SST Ampzilla runs me out of a room and there is nothing I can do but get up and walk away. I don't even want to see who makes the amp. If I can't stay seated through a listening session, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, says. proves or suggests, does it?

I've heard other people say SS amps aren't bright, I suggest they look at the measurement before making that statement. All the SS ABs I've seen measured, tip
up from 10-14khz to 20khz. Though my hearing isn't as good as it once was, VOLUME can exacerbate the problem of hot roll-up, not roll-off.

As I've said 52 years with the same brand and couldn't be happier. The way I do things with my system is no different than you liking zippers and me liking button flies.
You found what works for you and I found what works for me. As far as limiting what I can listen to, a simple tone control adjustment is all that it has ever taken in my
rooms.

The sub/bass system is completely separate from the main system other than tone controls in the bass/mids/highs. No separate EQ above 280hz in my system other than tone control. The room uses adjustable Helmholtz resonators for three peeks in both rooms and the two separate Bass columns, 4-6 DBA sub-array, and two LS mains are pure placement for delays, imaging, and soundstage. All the subs in one system are PR mass-tuned (putty), and the Servo in another room uses simple rumble filters for TT use and both rooms use adj Helmholtz sub/bass resonators for peaks.

No DSP, at all. If I want to hear that, I visit the neighbor with his 50K surround system. That drives me completely nuts.

I use a simple mechanical EQ that works on everything even changing the main speakers, like I just did. I blew a PR while playing some music for the kids
"Da Club" took a toll on my 14-year old PR driver. LOL. 20 minutes later we had the speakers swapped and back in the dance business. Now to lay that beast
down and swap the PR. 410lbs X 2 ain't easy for me to tip anymore. Heavy suckers at 70 years old.

As for buying 20 Topping amps, I'll pass on that too, I'll stick with the old Bryson. They along with my Mac and Cary vintage stuff will outlast my great
grandchildren and probably send a couple of them through college according to my insurance lady.

BTW I have 7 or 9 Nord NC500 one-ups. Excellent amps and I have a good repour with Nord's owner. I swap them for the Cary V12Rs I run in the winter.

 

[Chrispy]

Well we do have a difference of opinion. SST Ampzilla runs me out of a room and there is nothing I can do but get up and walk away. I don't even want to see who makes the amp. If I can't stay seated through a listening session, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, says. proves or suggests, does it?

I've heard other people say SS amps aren't bright, I suggest they look at the measurement before making that statement. All the SS ABs I've seen measured, tip
up from 10-14khz to 20khz. Though my hearing isn't as good as it once was, VOLUME can exacerbate the problem of hot roll-up, not roll-off.

As I've said 52 years with the same brand and couldn't be happier. The way I do things with my system is no different than you liking zippers and me liking button flies.
You found what works for you and I found what works for me. As far as limiting what I can listen to, a simple tone control adjustment is all that it has ever taken in my
rooms.

The sub/bass system is completely separate from the main system other than tone controls in the bass/mids/highs. No separate EQ above 280hz in my system other than tone control. The room uses adjustable Helmholtz resonators for three peeks in both rooms and the two separate Bass columns, 4-6 DBA sub-array, and two LS mains are pure placement for delays, imaging, and soundstage. All the subs in one system are PR mass-tuned (putty), and the Servo in another room uses simple rumble filters for TT use and both rooms use adj Helmholtz sub/bass resonators for peaks.

No DSP, at all. If I want to hear that, I visit the neighbor with his 50K surround system. That drives me completely nuts.

I use a simple mechanical EQ that works on everything even changing the main speakers, like I just did. I blew a PR while playing some music for the kids
"Da Club" took a toll on my 14-year old PR driver. LOL. 20 minutes later we had the speakers swapped and back in the dance business. Now to lay that beast
down and swap the PR. 410lbs X 2 ain't easy for me to tip anymore. Heavy suckers at 70 years old.

As for buying 20 Topping amps, I'll pass on that too, I'll stick with the old Bryson. They along with my Mac and Cary vintage stuff will outlast my great
grandchildren and probably send a couple of them through college according to my insurance lady.

BTW I have 7 or 9 Nord NC500 one-ups. Excellent amps and I have a good repour with Nord's owner. I swap them for the Cary V12Rs I run in the winter.

LOL after years of heavy machinery mechanicing your ears are superfine golden, eh? that you hear such differences is in a word, incredible.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well we do have a difference of opinion. SST Ampzilla runs me out of a room and there is nothing I can do but get up and walk away. I don't even want to see who makes the amp. If I can't stay seated through a listening session, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, says. proves or suggests, does it?

I've heard other people say SS amps aren't bright, I suggest they look at the measurement before making that statement. All the SS ABs I've seen measured, tip
up from 10-14khz to 20khz. Though my hearing isn't as good as it once was, VOLUME can exacerbate the problem of hot roll-up, not roll-off.

As I've said 52 years with the same brand and couldn't be happier. The way I do things with my system is no different than you liking zippers and me liking button flies.
You found what works for you and I found what works for me. As far as limiting what I can listen to, a simple tone control adjustment is all that it has ever taken in my
rooms.

The sub/bass system is completely separate from the main system other than tone controls in the bass/mids/highs. No separate EQ above 280hz in my system other than tone control. The room uses adjustable Helmholtz resonators for three peeks in both rooms and the two separate Bass columns, 4-6 DBA sub-array, and two LS mains are pure placement for delays, imaging, and soundstage. All the subs in one system are PR mass-tuned (putty), and the Servo in another room uses simple rumble filters for TT use and both rooms use adj Helmholtz sub/bass resonators for peaks.

No DSP, at all. If I want to hear that, I visit the neighbor with his 50K surround system. That drives me completely nuts.

I use a simple mechanical EQ that works on everything even changing the main speakers, like I just did. I blew a PR while playing some music for the kids
"Da Club" took a toll on my 14-year old PR driver. LOL. 20 minutes later we had the speakers swapped and back in the dance business. Now to lay that beast
down and swap the PR. 410lbs X 2 ain't easy for me to tip anymore. Heavy suckers at 70 years old.

As for buying 20 Topping amps, I'll pass on that too, I'll stick with the old Bryson. They along with my Mac and Cary vintage stuff will outlast my great
grandchildren and probably send a couple of them through college according to my insurance lady.

BTW I have 7 or 9 Nord NC500 one-ups. Excellent amps and I have a good repour with Nord's owner. I swap them for the Cary V12Rs I run in the winter.

I've heard Ampzillas or the offspring that were fine, but it has been a long time ago. So your Bryston (not Bryson) amp is non-bright yet SS so by your statements not neutral. Exactly how does Bryston adulterate the signal to make it non-neutral?

All SS class AB amps you have seen measured tip up from somewhere between 10 khz and 20 khz? You've not seen many measurements of them have you.

Here is one that does not.

Nor does this one.

Nor this one.

Not this one either.

How about one more.

Might well include this one too.

The rest of your post is about doing EQ the hard way. Sure if it works for you no problem. Not cool to spread misinformation however. Not cool at all.

 

[pinger]

LOL after years of heavy machinery mechanicing your ears are superfine golden, eh? that you hear such differences is in a word, incredible.

Yeah sounds like he's read too many issues of Stereophile.

 

[pinger]

I am currently using a pair of ProAc SM100 as nearfield monitors in my studio.

My current amp is topping PA5ii

A lot of studio are running the ProAc on Bryson 3b sst or 4b sst

I personally like my current setup but I am wondering if it would be a "night and day" difference as some people claim.

Any opinions?

Define upgrade. Power? OK. Better build quality? OK. Ergonomics? OK. Sound quality. Nope