Post-DIRAC Live ART Calibration - Lack of Bass

[Freido28]

Hi all,

I've got a 5.1.4 setup and recently upgraded my front LCR with KEF R3 Metas and KEF R6 Meta, as well as upgrading my sub to a HSU Research VTF-2 Mk5. The sub came in first so I have a few days using it without calibration. It was almost overpowering but I learned what the possibility was.

Once the KEF's came in I ran DIRAC Live with ART.

The sound post calibration has been great, with the exception of my sub. It felt completely neutered. Whereas I would "feel" bullets flying in the background before, there was almost no low's now.

Based on DIRAC's own tips, I went in and jumped it from 0.0 to +3db, still no change.

I also then opened up both ports and set it to 2 port open on the sub itself. Slight change, but still fell hollow with no low's.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Freido28]

I'm also not sure if it's due to where I set the crossovers, but I don't fully understand all of that yet, so if it's helpful I can post screenshots of those as well.

 

[ban25]

Try moving the bass shelf up to +6 dB and also enable Infrabass in ART:

How-to: Infra-bass bypass in ART | Dirac Live Active Room Treatment

Problem formulationDirac Live ART implicitly enforces a steep high-pass filter at 20 Hz, with the consequence that any content below 20 Hz present in a recording would not make its way out to any of the speakers, including infra bass-capable subwoofers. For reference, neither Dirac Live Room...

helpdesk.dirac.com

 

[smygolf]

My guess is that you hear ART in action.
Decay is so low that it can be mistaken for low bass volume.

If you can, measure with REW, before and after.
According to pic posted target curve/corrected graph shows more bass then un-corrected

 

[alvigg]

I have plenty of bass with either +4 or +6. Due to the better decay, everything else is clearer with better soundstage.

 

[smygolf]

I'm also not sure if it's due to where I set the crossovers, but I don't fully understand all of that yet, so if it's helpful I can post screenshots of those as well.

You do not have a crossover in traditionell meaning with ART.

 

[Freido28]

Thank you all!

I jumped it to +6 and turned on infra-bass bypass.

I'm not sure if its' doing what its supposed to and I maybe just personally don't like the way it sounds?

I'm using the intro battle scene of Edge of Tomorrow, and prior to running DIRAC at all, all bullets felt a solid "pop" of bass to them. It was really nice. Now it sounds like all the lows are being handled by the front KEF's. There's def some lows that I can tell, but it feels like its coming from the fronts and not the sub.

New screens for reference:

 

[smygolf]

You have done it wrong, the raised target in sub group will not effect the overall sound.
Use +6dB in the bass on every group

 

[Freido28]

OMG.....I can't believe I missed that. I assumed the slider on the left was the average of all speakers in each group

Going to redo it and try again!

 

[AudioJester]

Does your sub have autosense to switch on? Sometimes if the output level is low it may not trigger the sub to switch on.

 

[Freido28]

Does your sub have autosense to switch on? Sometimes if the output level is low it may not trigger the sub to switch on.

It does. It shows as green "on" the whole time, just double checked.

I re-did the filter and changed the sub to +6dB on all groups and uploaded. Slight change.

My wife who admittedly doesn't know much about this stuff said "if you asked me, I'd say we don't even have a sub hooked up"

At this point is it worth just upping the gain/volume on the physical sub itself?

Latest calibration for reference:

 

[napfkuchen]

For me the graphs show that neither the speakers nor the sub (except for 30-34 Hz) are capable of the desired +6 dB output below 100 Hz. Maybe keep a 0 dB target curve and reduce the target for anything above 120 Hz by 4-6 dB?

 

[Freido28]

For me the graphs show that neither the speakers nor the sub (except for 30-34 Hz) are capable of the desired +6 dB output below 100 Hz. Maybe keep a 0 dB target curve and reduce the target for anything above 120 Hz by 4-6 dB?

Do you think I ran the measurements with the master volume too low? Worth re-running?

 

[smygolf]

Do not change any lvl on any ch after calibration, it will screw up Art totaly.

 

[smygolf]

Do you think I ran the measurements with the master volume too low? Worth re-running?

Dirac can raise the bass volume more then you think, if it is a phase issue that lowers the un-calibrated volume.

As i said before, verify with REW.
According to Dirac you have WAY more bass now then before.

 

[Freido28]

Do not change any lvl on any ch after calibration, it will screw up Art totaly.

That's what I had assumed, appreciate you confirming.

I'll run REW tonight/tomorrow and see how it goes. I had a small window of time this morning to get the measurements with the kids out of the house. No way I get that level of quiet now haha

 

[Denon545]

By default ART sets the subwoofer support at -18. You can go as high as -24.

At -18 it will balance the bass with a combination of the subs and the mains. I turned mine to -24 so that it bias towards the subs more than the mains.

Go to your subwoofer group and click on the three dots and then you can change the support level. Once you change it, be sure to hit enter to set it or it will revert back.

 

[smygolf]

By default ART sets the subwoofer support at -18. You can go as high as -24.

At -18 it will balance the bass with a combination of the subs and the mains. I turned mine to -24 so that it bias towards the subs more than the mains.

Go to your subwoofer group and click on the three dots and then you can change the support level. Once you change it, be sure to hit enter to set it or it will revert back.

Are you sure -24 is the limit ?
Think i have managed closer to 30, will check when i am back home.

 

[alvigg]

Since its a minus sign, is a larger number actually smaller support?

 

[TimoJ]

Since its a minus sign, is a larger number actually smaller support?

No, this is Dirac's weird logic... Larger negative number = more support.