Yes, it is currently en route to China. USPS shipping was over $70.
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Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.
- Thread starter Eggs Ackley
- Start date
Think how we are reduced, buy an amplifier to use as little as possible because otherwise it destroys ....Received my brand new replacement today, a little bit concerned about leaving it on all the time as my critical listening is limited to few hours per week. For TV and home cinema I shall stick with Marantz AVR.
But do you really think it's worth it for some sinad point?
Yes that is correct, in my case AOSHIDA HIFI-US is the seller.
Interestingly after powering up and down several times and switching inputs, messing around, it works again. Even though I don’t have relay chatter, my bet is it had something to do with that because in the beginning switching inputs back and forth was having unpredictable results. Do I send it back only to have them say it works fine or wait for it to do it again?
When it happened it was midnight and the amp had been on for 36 hours but not playing anything.
When it happened it was midnight and the amp had been on for 36 hours but not playing anything.
Ya it's messed up. It will happen again later at some point. I would send it back asap for refund.
Lräk
Member
That is very interesting information. When my PA5 went bad (about a month ago), I too had left it on about the same time. I said 2 days, but probably more like 36 hours. In my case, absolutely no sound at all. No clicking, buzzing, white noise...nothing.
I contacted the seller through Amazon and they immediately said to ship it to their China office. Being an ex semiconductor test engineer, I decided to open it up first and see if I could find any obvious faults. I didn't see any burnt components and measured lots of voltages that seemed correct. Even with the cover off, the heat sink and the Topping proprietary component got a bit warm to the touch after about 30 minutes.
There are 2 relays that I recognize from my test engineering. I know 1 of the 8 pins is the power to the relay and the opposite pin energizes the relay. These relays usually come in 5v and 12v supplies and I could NOT measure any voltage to the relay. I did find a 12v somewhere else on the board, but none of the relays pins measured anything. These relays are right next to the 2 balanced inputs so obviously how the PA5 switches to the different inputs.
So IMO our PA5's were having problems with the relay supplies. You were able to get yours to turn on. Mine never did even after a couple of days. Others with relay chatter may also have had similar problems.
Doesn't explain the other PA5 failures with left channel noise, but I'm somewhat sure it does ours.
I was strongly considering getting the PA5, but of course, until this issue is sorted/fixed by Topping, it's pointless to purchase it.
Hard to believe Topping is still selling them, eh?
I mean, if PA5 started blowing up speakers like what happened with headphones, I guess Topping would made a mandatory recall by now.
The only reason I haven't purchased Buckeye Amps already, is my speaker build is going to happen at the end of the year, so I'm waiting for the speakers that I want, and hopefully Topping will sort this issue by then.
For comparison with Buckeye Amps:
- for 65% more $$$ than PA5, Buckeye Amps NC252MP has 106% more power (in watts), but a decrease of 11% of SINAD.
- for 114% more $$$ than PA5, Buckeye Amps NC502MP has 358% more power (in watts), but a decrease of 8% of SINAD.
Hard to believe Topping is still selling them, eh?
I mean, if PA5 started blowing up speakers like what happened with headphones, I guess Topping would made a mandatory recall by now.
The only reason I haven't purchased Buckeye Amps already, is my speaker build is going to happen at the end of the year, so I'm waiting for the speakers that I want, and hopefully Topping will sort this issue by then.
For comparison with Buckeye Amps:
- for 65% more $$$ than PA5, Buckeye Amps NC252MP has 106% more power (in watts), but a decrease of 11% of SINAD.
- for 114% more $$$ than PA5, Buckeye Amps NC502MP has 358% more power (in watts), but a decrease of 8% of SINAD.
True, I agree. When it works flawlessly it is bloody brilliant :-( but I am not sure now that how long it will be before it develops the issue again. I still have not connected it up yet. It has definitely has a later serial number.
Also look at Audiophonics, 416 eur for a NC252MP, will come out to just under 470 usd shipped for one amp, of course if you buy more than one that helps spread the shipping the cost
.Michael
Lräk
Member
I'm using my Aiyima A07 backup until I get my PA5 returned (hopefully not repaired). Honestly, it sounds pretty good.Electronics die, sometimes suddenly. Hence, I keep a backup amp - Aiyima A07
BoredErica
Addicted to Fun and Learning
IMO:
Greater power and SINAD in amp for me are not very useful. The 19db gain is useful, and I prefer lower than that. The Buckeye's stuck at a far higher gain. My left channel is totally shot, as in it causes whichever speaker is hooked up to it to play very loud sounds that moves the speaker cone a lot. Who knows, if I left it that way it might damage the speaker, but I'm not going to be the guinea pig for that. I've not seen other people report this issue yet, so I wonder if I'm alone.
I am still waiting for @TOPPING-Service to provide a rough timeline on the fix. First fix must be verified working and no additional issues discovered. Then units with fix have to be mass produced. Then they have to ship to sellers, who then have to sell through old stock and sell new stock. Each step will take some time and I have no idea where Topping is at in this process. Will they be explicit about which units were fixed, with say a revision number? Or will it be a crapshoot when it comes to getting a fixed vs not-fixed unit?
no it does not sound good. it provides enough, decently clean power for your speakers to sound good.
//I know what you meant, just kidding
Sokel
Master Contributor
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To be even more precise,it responds to the power asked by the speakerno it does not sound good. it provides enough, decently clean power for your speakers to sound good.
//I know what you meant, just kidding
I understand your point about not needing the extra power for near field listening but in my experience if your are starting with a decently low noise DAC (> 110 dB SNR at 2 V) 26 dB gain is absolutely fine and will not result in any noise issues even when directly connected to unpadded 90+ dB sensitivity tweeters.
If the gain is a sticking point look at the ICEpower 50ASX2SE which has 20.5 dB gain (and rather low power) or Neurochrome Modulus which has 20 dB gain. Some Hypex implementations also have adjustable gain like the IOM reviewed here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-iom-ncore-pro-pwr-amp.8979/.
And of course there is the nuclear option of bypassing the input buffer on the Hypex MP amps as explained in the data sheet to reduce the gain to 12 dB
.Michael
BoredErica
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Interesting suggestions.I understand your point about not needing the extra power for near field listening but in my experience if your are starting with a decently low noise DAC (> 110 dB SNR at 2 V) 26 dB gain is absolutely fine and will not result in any noise issues even when directly connected to unpadded 90+ dB sensitivity tweeters.
If the gain is a sticking point look at the ICEpower 50ASX2SE which has 20.5 dB gain (and rather low power) or Neurochrome Modulus which has 20 dB gain. Some Hypex implementations also have adjustable gain like the IOM reviewed here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-iom-ncore-pro-pwr-amp.8979/.
And of course there is the nuclear option of bypassing the input buffer on the Hypex MP amps as explained in the data sheet to reduce the gain to 12 dB
Michael
I would rather Topping fix their freakin' product and not have to think about this anymore though.
I feel like I've moved on from audio for time being as I got other stuff to take care of than be in audio forums all day whining about Topping service.
DanielT
Major Contributor
Topping: Withdraw the product from the market, ensure that the dealers do not sell it any more. Fix the errors. Then version 2.0, don't let early adopters act as guinea pigs. Perform solid QC. Test and test again so it works well. Or a combination of that plus like in software beta testers, who of course get the product when they test.
After that, increase the warranty period on future versions, include shipping costs when submitted by the customer for what falls within the warranty, do...and so on. It is up to Topping to see about their brand, but that, the brand, is still more important than one product in the range, a PA5 amp? But Topping can do as they want. Those were just my thoughts.
After that, increase the warranty period on future versions, include shipping costs when submitted by the customer for what falls within the warranty, do...and so on. It is up to Topping to see about their brand, but that, the brand, is still more important than one product in the range, a PA5 amp? But Topping can do as they want. Those were just my thoughts.
Exactly do the QC before hand. And you can do accelerated life cycle testing by running to failure in environmental chambers (extremes of temperature for instance multiply the time so you can simulate years in months). And just plain run them at the limits into the ground during testing. The company I worked for had a chamber and a test lab and had QC engineers ensure that the product would run for decades.
We don't know they haven't already done all that testing.
The problem with volume production design and manufacture is you can never test enough devices, or for enough time. Low failure rates will still show once you start to make tens of thousands, and they've been in use for months, rather than weeks. A batch related component failure can also always trip you up.
Accelerated life testing only works for test conditions you've considered in your risk analysis - customers will always end up putting your kit in conditions you've never thought of.
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