Poll: Do you use a subwoofer? (Explain why/why not)

[ernestcarl]

Im using a HSU VTF-2 MK5 with my KH 80 DSPs. a big necessity as these monitors are only flat to 60hz. now i am intrigued by RePhase. could that get rid of the ~12db null i have at around 30hz?

At the 30 Hz that's really not easy to fix esp. with just DSP! -- even with a lot of thick heavy bass "traps" -- you need a specialized product to target and treat those low sub bass frequencies specifically. Play around with placement first -- not just the subs and speakers but also with your listening position.

 

[Fluffy]

The whole "getting it right" thing about subs actually sounds like a big determent to me. I like to just put the thing and have it working more or less well and not caring about it anymore. The added hassle of having to blend the subs with the speakers and using all this extra software really turns me off. I realize there are sonic advantages to maybe achieve with subs, but if all it does is adding another 20-30 hz to my bottom end extension, in overall it doesn't sound like it justifies the effort for me. I'd rather have big efficient towers and eq some +db to the bottom end if I seem to be missing it ant that's it.

I think this whole aspect also depends on the choice of music. I listen to loud metal most of the time, so the whole imaging and preciseness of time alignment is not that important. I want the low end mostly for the rumbly feeling, TBH. The most I think I'll do is maybe have some bass traps to make it less muddy, if possible. Well, for now big expansive towers is just a fantasy anyway

 

[ernestcarl]

The whole "getting it right" thing about subs actually sounds like a big determent to me. I like to just put the thing and have it working more or less well and not caring about it anymore. The added hassle of having to blend the subs with the speakers and using all this extra software really turns me off. I realize there are sonic advantages to maybe achieve with subs, but if all it does is adding another 20-30 hz to my bottom end extension, in overall it doesn't sound like it justifies the effort for me. I'd rather have big efficient towers and eq some +db to the bottom end if I seem to be missing it ant that's it.

I think this whole aspect also depends on the choice of music. I listen to loud metal most of the time, so the whole imaging and preciseness of time alignment is not that important. I want the low end mostly for the rumbly feeling, TBH. The most I think I'll do is maybe have some bass traps to make it less muddy, if possible. Well, for now big expansive towers is just a fantasy anyway

I don't actually use a sub in my living room since that room is especially, acoustically challenged in the bass arena. I tried... but failed to get it right three times now. Maybe I'll try again just for the heck of it... it's a challenge... but maybe not worth-it? Dunno. I'm undecided myself.

 

[Ron Texas]

I've also seen other people incorrigibly talk about getting the balance between their speakers and sub(s) only by ear since they do not trust "measurements" and "graphs" -- but often it takes them absolutely forever, and they keep on rearranging their setup month after month. I agree, taking measurements is absolutely essential nowadays -- and luckily, the measurement gear for this task is not really all that expensive. Takes time though, to learn and get it right.

Even with full range speakers there is a need for EQ. It's just not as big a job as a Sub.

 

[ernestcarl]

Even with full range speakers there is a need for EQ. It's just not as big a job as a Sub.

Yep, I EQ the bass there as well. Have to... else it's unbearable listen to music in multiple locations.

 

[Willem]

Part of the challenge of subs also applies to big main speakers: room integration in a room with room modes. As for subs, doing that with an Antimode 8033 is pretty painless.

 

[dkinric]

I use subs that have built in Anthem room correction. After calibration, I tweak the level with an app from the listening position.
Seems to work well.

 

[essence]

Hi Essence: The Rephase thing looks like it works wonders. I used REW/ miniDSP to eq my speakers awhile back. It also worked well - attenuating the peaks and generally made the FR curve flatter but not as flat as you got your C1's. However, I didn't like the sound. It was too anemic for my taste. Then I read Toole's book where he discusses FR curves and general listening preferences. I put myself into the group that prefers a modest bump in the low end and a declining FR response towards the high end.

It is interesting that your perception of your system is that it has more bass after Eq'ing.

BTW, I was in the market for C1's for awhile but the WAF was ultimately too low (R2D2 like was the comment). I think they look great.

I get the same impression when I apply EQ to the entire frequency range hence I generally stick to low end only, hence why most EQ recommendations target < 200~ Hz. This is what put me off using sonarworks as you can't limit the range of EQ.

Im using a HSU VTF-2 MK5 with my KH 80 DSPs. a big necessity as these monitors are only flat to 60hz. now i am intrigued by RePhase. could that get rid of the ~12db null i have at around 30hz?

As long as you have enough amplification headroom and the null isn't caused by SBIR then I don't see why not. I am also using 2.4m x 1.2m x 250mm 12k Pa.s/m2 corner basstraps with 600mm airgap.

 

[ernestcarl]

Im using a HSU VTF-2 MK5 with my KH 80 DSPs. a big necessity as these monitors are only flat to 60hz. now i am intrigued by RePhase. could that get rid of the ~12db null i have at around 30hz?

Using multiple subs is another way of filling up nulls. Instead of using one big sub, you can get two or more smaller subs. There’s a lot great tutorials out there... here’s a video that shows you how to level the bass not just in one position but multiple seats in a theatre environment using REW and miniDSP:

 

[nhunt]

Regarding the discussion of the difficulty of room acoustics and subwoofers, I think it’s actually easier to solve those issues with subs than it is with full range speakers. You typically have more placement options with the subs than with the floor standers and you can get multiple to help address room issues.

Also, I’m certain I don’t have perfect bass management but using room eq made them sound good enough to me (I have two subs on opposite walls)

 

[Martin]

I use two Reaction Audio Echo 15 ported subs in my home theater system. I don’t use a sub in my stereo system because my Von Schweikert VR-4 are 20-20kHz, +/- 3 dB.

Martin

 

[MattHooper]

Regarding the discussion of the difficulty of room acoustics and subwoofers, I think it’s actually easier to solve those issues with subs than it is with full range speakers. You typically have more placement options with the subs than with the floor standers and you can get multiple to help address room issues.

I have heard that often.

It's one reason I gave subs a try again.

It wasn't true. (At least not in my case).

I have had more large speakers in my room than I can remember right now, and it was easy every single time to quickly get balanced, coherent sound. Tried adding a sub (two actually) and...what a gawdamned headache. Didn't get it right. Will have to go the complicated software route to do it which, again, I never once needed for just a pair of speakers.

 

[Mashcky]

The most I think I'll do is maybe have some bass traps to make it less muddy, if possible.

This is the whole purpose of subwoofers even in a setup that has full range speakers. As others have mentioned and could probably explain better than I can, multiple subs opposing each other with DSP is more like an equalizer for peaks and nulls than a ultra-low frequency machine (although it can be that too!).
Another advantage to me that doesn’t get discussed as much is that subs allow one to hide a full range system a little better. My partner doesn’t like the idea of large speakers, and subs essentially allow me to hide several square feet of speaker somewhere else in my room. Bookshelf aesthetic, full-range sound.

 

[Jaysz]

Have 2 passive subs in my speakers
Listened to some small active speakers
bass wasn't anywhere near the same depth
Going to keep mine

 

[Severian]

Hi Essence: The Rephase thing looks like it works wonders. I used REW/ miniDSP to eq my speakers awhile back. It also worked well - attenuating the peaks and generally made the FR curve flatter but not as flat as you got your C1's. However, I didn't like the sound. It was too anemic for my taste. Then I read Toole's book where he discusses FR curves and general listening preferences. I put myself into the group that prefers a modest bump in the low end and a declining FR response towards the high end.

It is interesting that your perception of your system is that it has more bass after Eq'ing.

BTW, I was in the market for C1's for awhile but the WAF was ultimately too low (R2D2 like was the comment). I think they look great.

I've always had a hard time dialing a house curve into REW that suits my preferences. I get a better result from adjusting the levels on my mains and subs, as well as the crossover point, by ear until the balance is roughly where I want it. Then I do sweeps of subs/L/R independently and eyeball the necessary EQ filters to smooth out the peaks and set the delay. I do one filter at a time by trial and error. The whole process takes a while, but I'm much happier with the sound than with my first few attempts with REW where I let it do more of the work.

My house curve is pretty extreme compared to what most people on this forum would prefer though. I'm basically trying to create a hi-fi club soundsystem in miniature. If I want it more civilized, I just turn the gain on the sub amp down by a notch or two...