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Polk R200, Investigation Re: I am very Disappointed with Dull non HiFi sound.

napilopez

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I'd be fascinated (and surprised) to learn that both his tweeters are faulty. I keep seeing this type of logic suggested on this forum and I just don't understand it.
I agree that's it's unusual, but it's similarly unusual that his measurements would differ from at least a dozen other measurements of the same tweeter.
 

beaRA

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I'd be fascinated (and surprised) to learn that both his tweeters are faulty. I keep seeing this type of logic suggested on this forum and I just don't understand it.
Okay so let's reason through this. Here are the scenarios as I see them:

1. ROOSKIE's speakers are defective (or some part is out of spec).

2. Polk has made a deliberate change to the Reserve components after units shipped from June-October 2021.

3. ROOSKIE has made an honest mistake in his measurement method that somehow only affects the R200.

4. ROOSKIE is falsifying measurements to match his subjective impressions.

I would rather give a fellow community member the benefit of the doubt over Polk quality control, so I dismissed #3 & #4. #2 would need another recent sample to corroborate, so I consider #1 to be the most likely based on the available data.
 
OP
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ROOSKIE

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Serial # (same for both)PBBQ042100799
Realized there is a manufacture date on the speaker 4/12/21

I have not yet decided what is the next best thing to do is. A bunch of info below.

Curious if there some tweeter batch variations. Serial no. of speakers tested?

Okay so let's reason through this. Here are the scenarios as I see them:

1. ROOSKIE's speakers are defective (or some part is out of spec).

2. Polk has made a deliberate change to the Reserve components after units shipped from June-October 2021.

3. ROOSKIE has made an honest mistake in his measurement method that somehow only affects the R200.

4. ROOSKIE is falsifying measurements to match his subjective impressions.

I would rather give a fellow community member the benefit of the doubt over Polk quality control, so I dismissed #3 & #4. #2 would need another recent sample to corroborate, so I consider #1 to be the most likely based on the available data.

I believe there is an option 5.

This is going to be a long shot to some and others not a long shot.
The Ring radiator tweeter needs to break in. Yah. The tweeter has support in two spots on the ring.
Inside and outside. I wonder if a compliance variation from one side being slightly less pliable could be creating a phase/output issue at high frequencies.
My tweeters are not 3db off from others the whole way through.
In the gated measurements, the tweeter is fairly close until about 9 or 10k where mine stays flattish and then falls off while other copies rise a few DB.
At this range even a micro difference from one side of the ring to the other seems like a plausible culprit.
I am going to remeasure again and then drive one speaker hard for awhile and then remeasure again. It sure seems like a possibility, as much as anything.

Also
@beaRA again I appreciate your measurements. If willing and able time wise, 30 & 60 degree off axis and Moving Mic Measurements at the listening position (maybe a 20 second summation) would be really interesting in terms of how this speaker performs. A big component of the investigation pertains to the off axis and in room total energy with all the reflections (the room curve) If not no worry.

@ROOSKIE - since your pair is past the return window, if you feel comfortable going inside to take a peek at the crossover here are photos of a crossover before and after an owner upgrade. That way you could see if your pair has any different components than his did. Just a thought.

I took Photos of the Crossover, it seems to match exactly.
Obviously a component could be out of spec but seems like no intentional/accidental component changes.

1646452778982.png


I also took some more Photos.
Well built speaker for the class. Nothing overly special nor far out of ordinary and yet everything seems/feels considered - like a Honda CR-V.
I like the Stamped frame for the woofer lots of venting around the voice coil. Screws hold the magnet to the frame (not just glue)
Very pretty driver for a budget woofer.
1646452999227.png

1646453036258.png

1646453064987.png

1646453088480.png

1646453120975.png

1646453155197.png


@napilopez
Here are the impedance traces.
Though maybe they accidentally used a tweeter with a different impedance but looks like they are both supposed to be 4ohm in other measurements and mine both are.
Screenshot (38).png


Screenshot (39).png


Finally if anyone like to play with the woofer specs in a box program here they are for the 1 driver I took out.
Measured with DATS3 multiple time to confirm the results.
Nice driver based on what I can tell (for the $) Prolly a $50 driver in DIY land. Would love to see a Klipple of the driver.

R200 woofer DATS.jpg

Screenshot (41).png
 

beaRA

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@beaRA again I appreciate your measurements. If willing and able time wise, 30 & 60 degree off axis and Moving Mic Measurements at the listening position (maybe a 20 second summation) would be really interesting in terms of how this speaker performs. A big component of the investigation pertains to the off axis and in room total energy with all the reflections (the room curve) If not no worry.
Until you have a sample we know is representative of what others may receive, I don't think the investigation should extend into the off-axis and in-room total energy.
 
OP
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ROOSKIE

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Until you have a sample we know is representative of what others may receive, I don't think the investigation should extend into the off-axis and in-room total energy.
Howdy, no worry if you feel that and time has limits for attention.
I will say that if your off axis responce matches mine and others and the MMM capture is available we would at least be able to see how one actual room energy curve looks on a unit tested as spec.
I have a strong feeling the predicted in room from the Klipple test is rarely, but sometimes off by an appreciable margin.

These speakers are an ideal test for that as the off axis in speakers Polk has made using their particular ring radiators,(Peerless? at least the old lsim series obviously used that OEM. The new silver plug is made to look like Scan Speak but I highly doubt those are actually SS OEM's) makes a big drop in all of the testing I have seen thus far.

Anyway. Who knows. I also have to decide how much time to invest in this. It is interesting and also so are many others things competing for my attention.
Hosting some guests now for a few days so maybe next week I will try my proposed tweeter "break in". This pair only has a handful of hours on them so if the dual compliance issue is real maybe 20 or 30 hours of constant playing in the garage would help. That would be about my limit before calling Polk and trying another pair.
 

Wave Function

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Does anyone have any thoughts on polk r200 VS elac dbr62? Also, I noticed the - 3 of the polks is lower at 37hz. Would this be appreciably better than the Elac without subs which I think has A - 3 at 40hz?

There's another thread about those.
 
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