Polestar 2 preorder open in the US - at 0% financing

[jhaider]

I was cleaning out spam and mailing lists, and found this email from last month:

I highlighted the most interesting thing about the launch announcement to me is the: 0% APR financing from Day One. That is not an optimistic start. Pricing seems high as well. Even considering the $7500 tax credit Teslas no longer fetch, at the equivalent performance level Polestar 2 is currently more expensive than Model 3 ($47k), and even Model Y ($50k). Tesla just cut their prices, but even compared to Tesla pricing when this email went out Polestar seems a little overpriced. It is also $5k more than its ugly step-sibling, Volvo XC40 Recharge, even though Polestar is built in China and Recharge is built in Belgium.

At one time (i.e. until Tesla announced Model Y with a 3rd row) Polestar 2 was at the top of my shortlist. I like the styling, much prefer a hatch to a trunk (that's only thing I would change about Tesla Model 3), and honestly just don’t like the idea of being a two-cars-from-the-same-brand family. I’m still pulling for Polestar/Volvo to be the second viable option.

 

[RayDunzl]

Until I read far enough to see the references to Tesla and Volvo, I had no clue what a Polestar is.

Still don't, but I presume it is an electrocar.

 

[Blumlein 88]

https://www.polestar.com/us/polesta... General&utm_term=polestar 2&utm_content=Info

See nothing compelling vs a Tesla. But just different aesthetics and more choice is good if at least competitive with Tesla.

 

[Trouble Maker]

5 years and you'll pay 0% interest, you just have to pay the 60% depreciation in that same time! What a deal!

The Volvo/polestar is pretty good looking. The Jaguar I-Pace is amazing looking in person, and I usually hate anything even close to resembling an SUV. Most of the Telsas don't do much for me in that department; boring looking at best to downright ugly.

Will you get better initial quality and reliability with Volvo or has Tesla gotten better in that area yet?

I was also surprised about maintenance cost a friend with a Model S (maybe a P85D) was telling me about. It seemed higher than my expectation considering it should just be periodic fluid changes. It felt like either Tesla is charging through the nose for it or it's over complicated procedure. I can't imagine selling a '$35K' car that is the model 3 and getting away with that. Though maybe most people buying them are relatively affluent even for that price point and they can afford higher maintenance cost.

A bit off topic, but we are lightly shopping for a Bolt for my better half for return to the US in a few months. Not the sharpest looking car, but probably as good as you can get in an EV for the price if we look at 2017-2018s. It seems like you can get one for around $20k with resonable miles depending on trim/options. We both like hatchbacks too so that helps. She had a Volt for about 2.5 years before we came here and we liked it well enough to consider the Bolt now.

 

[jhaider]

The Volvo/polestar is pretty good looking. The Jaguar I-Pace is amazing looking in person, and I usually hate anything even close to resembling an SUV. Most of the Telsas don't do much for me in that department; boring looking at best to downright ugly.

Agreed, Tata's offering looks decent enough. Energy efficiency is pathetic compared to Tesla or the (much slower) Koreans/Bolt, though. Polestar's MPGe isn't out yet, I don't think. Hopefully it will be competitive with 3/Y.

I personally like Tesla's design language, but that's pure preference. I like Polestar's too. None of them are as horrific as current Lexus models.

Will you get better initial quality and reliability with Volvo or has Tesla gotten better in that area yet?

Per Consumer Reports, Tesla reliability is in the bottom tier...but the brand ranked just below Tesla is Volvo. Make of that what you will.

I was also surprised about maintenance cost a friend with a Model S (maybe a P85D) was telling me about. It seemed higher than my expectation considering it should just be periodic fluid changes. It felt like either Tesla is charging through the nose for it or it's over complicated procedure.

Tesla used to recommend periodic scheduled servicing, with a cost in the hundreds. However, that is no longer the case. Here's Tesla's current service schedule for all models. It seems reasonable to me and what I would expect for any modern car.

As for Model S, here's a recent comparison of Model S maintenance costs compared to a few obsolete legacy things.

Source: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/406938/tesla-maintenance-cost/

Hopefully Polestar will be more similar in maintenance costs to Tesla than to the legacy things.

A bit off topic, but we are lightly shopping for a Bolt for my better half for return to the US in a few months. Not the sharpest looking car, but probably as good as you can get in an EV for the price if we look at 2017-2018s. It seems like you can get one for around $20k with resonable miles depending on trim/options.

That's a very good price for an efficient (if slow) modern car, if you can stomach a GM-grade interior. BMW i3 also has crushing depreciation, but is a really nice little car with surprising amounts of space for its size. I almost bought one (a 2 year old CPO one at less than half new cost.) about a year-and-a-half-ago, but the back doorlet windows don't go down and that made my little girl sad... $20k is not too far off the cost of a new Prius Prime, either.

 

[RayDunzl]

Polestar. It's a Zhejiang Geely.

 

[Trouble Maker]

Agreed, Tata's offering looks decent enough. Energy efficiency is pathetic compared to Tesla or the (much slower) Koreans/Bolt, though. Polestar's MPGe isn't out yet, I don't think. Hopefully it will be competitive with 3/Y.

I think most people buying the I-Pace don't have MPGe as top priority, it's probably pretty low for them. They probably care about cred (luxury/green), performance and looks. Probably next is interior and ride quality. I would venture to say that MPGe probably doesn't even crack the top 10 for buyers of that car. Plus it's still 2.5-4x what any ICE car that size would be.

As for Model S, here's a recent comparison of Model S maintenance costs compared to a few obsolete legacy things.
Source: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/406938/tesla-maintenance-cost/

Common Tesla Repair Cost - Oxygen sensor replacement $271 to $444

That's a very good price for an efficient (if slow) modern car, if you can stomach a GM-grade interior.

Eh, it doesn't seem that bad. 0-60 times.
2016 Volt, her previous car - 8.4 seconds
2018 Civic Si, my previous car - 6.3 seconds
2020 Civic Hatchback (sport), my next car - 6.8 seconds
2001 S2000, still have back home - 5.8 seconds
2017 Bolt - 6.3 seconds
So, it will be significantly faster than her last car.
Best # I can quickly find for a base Model 3 is 5.6 seconds. Sure you can get the one that cost $60k and it's faster.
Yes, the interior on the Volt was... fine. I'm assuming the Bolt is a bit better but probably nothing to write home about.

That's a very good price for an efficient (if slow) modern car, if you can stomach a GM-grade interior. BMW i3 also has crushing depreciation, but is a really nice little car with surprising amounts of space for its size. I almost bought one (a 2 year old CPO one at less than half new cost.) about a year-and-a-half-ago, but the back doorlet windows don't go down and that made my little girl sad...

i3 is definitely a cool car, with the full carbon fiber body.

But the EV version range is something like 80 miles, ok... 150 if you pony up for the big battery but that was only made in 2019 so it's not old enough for the big depreciation hit. When you consider some battery degradation and lower range in hot or cold, 80 miles can turn into 50 miles or even less really quickly. The range extender version basically adds a string trimmer engine with a 3 pint gas tank hooked up to a generator with the sole purpose of not stranding you. The purpose of cars like this is not to make a full baked car, but some kind of transportation that will work for enough people so that the maker (BMW) can get new technology into the market on a small scale to see how it works.

... $20k is not too far off the cost of a new Prius Prime, either.

Eh, a base is $28k... and $8k is $8k, and also 40% more than $20k when you look at the relative cost. Plus the depreciation cost will be much higher since we are comparing new to used. Plus only 25 mile battery. It seems like a great deal for a new (city) PHEV, the MPG with engine on is bonkers good too. It looks you can get a 2017 for roughly a little under $20k, so a bit cheaper than the Bolt. But she already had a PHEV with more range (38 miles for the Volt she had) and wants full electric now. A similar year Volt is a few grand less than the Prime and you get a 53 mile range on the battery, but 43mpg combined on the engine so worse there. But if you buy the right PHEV for your driving cycle you should be mostly using the battery anyway.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think most people buying the I-Pace don't have MPGe as top priority, it's probably pretty low for them. They probably care about cred (luxury/green), performance and looks. Probably next is interior and ride quality. I would venture to say that MPGe probably doesn't even crack the top 10 for buyers of that car. Plus it's still 2.5-4x what any ICE car that size would be.




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i3 is definitely a cool car, with the full carbon fiber body.

View attachment 74423

But the EV version range is something like 80 miles, ok... 150 if you pony up for the big battery but that was only made in 2019 so it's not old enough for the big depreciation hit. When you consider some battery degradation and lower range in hot or cold, 80 miles can turn into 50 miles or even less really quickly. The range extender version basically adds a string trimmer engine with a 3 pint gas tank hooked up to a generator with the sole purpose of not stranding you. The purpose of cars like this is not to make a full baked car, but some kind of transportation that will work for enough people so that the maker (BMW) can get new technology into the market on a small scale to see how it works.



Eh, a base is $28k... and $8k is $8k, and also 40% more than $20k when you look at the relative cost. Plus the depreciation cost will be much higher since we are comparing new to used. Plus only 25 mile battery. It seems like a great deal for a new (city) PHEV, the MPG with engine on is bonkers good too. But she already had a PHEV with more range (38 miles for the Volt she had) and wants full electric now.

Maybe those Tesla oxygen sensors aren't the kind you are thinking about.

 

[jhaider]

I think most people buying the I-Pace don't have MPGe as top priority, it's probably pretty low for them. They probably care about cred (luxury/green), performance and looks. Probably next is interior and ride quality. I would venture to say that MPGe probably doesn't even crack the top 10 for buyers of that car. Plus it's still 2.5-4x what any ICE car that size would be.

"Most people buying the I-Pace" is a small group in the US. Consider that in 2019, Tesla sold about 8 X's, 5 S's, or 60 3's in the US for every iPace Jaguar sold. It wasn't a capacity issue, either. Jaguar offered very steep discounts to move those 2500 or so iPaces.

As for Polestar, we'll see when the EPA numbers come out. Back-of-the-envelope I expect somewhat lower energy efficiency than Tesla but huge improvement over second-tier laggards iPace and e-tron: 78 kWh battery yields 275mi EPA range for Polestar, while a 75kWh battery yields 322mi/315mi EPA range for Model 3 LR/Y LR. By comparison, iPace gets 235mi range out of 90kWh. E-tron is even worse than that (more battery, less range).

I was intrigued by iPace when it was announced, and looked into it more seriously when their incentives made the midlevel trim with "Meridian" stereo cost around 55k USD after local sales tax and Federal tax credit. I have a soft spot for the brand, even though British Leyland, then Ford, then Tata successively stripped most of the good stuff. My dad had a Jaguar sedan for most of my childhood, and I loved that car: the Leaper, the sound when you floored the XK, the brief noise it made when you switched fuel tanks, the beautiful chromed metal reading lamps in the back seat that got hot enough to burn you if you used them on a long trip thanks to the now-thankfully-obsolete incandescent bulbs inside, and so on. However, shortly thereafter the visceral disgust at watching footage of Tata trucks transporting hordes of stormtroopers to intensify the illegal and barbaric occupation of Kashmir, with their systematic shooting protestors in the face with shotguns to cause blindness, round-the-clock curfews, months-long internet cutoffs, and other crimes against humanity, fortunately it was not a consummated interest.

But the EV version range is something like 80 miles, ok...

If that does not sound like enough range to you, fair enough. Even in the Before Times, 80 miles was about 2 weeks of driving for me, so I did not consider i3's "limited" range disqualifying. (In our present reality, I have not driven 80 miles from March to today!) More generally I think people vastly overstate the importance of range, given you're plugging in at home and sometimes work instead of going out of your way to pump toxic fluids into your vehicle. Few people expect their phone to last 2 weeks on a charge, because you can just plug it in!

Eh, a base is $28k... and $8k is $8k, and also 40% more than $20k when you look at the relative cost. Plus the depreciation cost will be much higher since we are comparing new to used.

I get wanting a fully modern car and not a bridge vehicle, even at the sacrifice of a GM econobox interior. However, your numbers aren't quite right. There's still a 4500 USD Federal tax credit for buying Prius Prime new, and dealer haggling. So the net purchase cost is closer. Also a new car warranty should lower cost of ownership going forward. The flip side may be availability. I checked on Edmunds, and in my area at least there do not seem to be any Prius Primes at local dealers. FYI I just looked at 2020 Bolts on AutoTrader, and saw several new 2020 models listed by Chevy dealers at $26-29k. I don't think they qualify for tax credits any more - don't get me started on the abject stupidity of US tax policy punishing American modern car innovators and subsidizing their foreign competition - but when the time comes it may be worth looking around at new and used if Bolt is the choice.

 

[pjug]

Polestar. It's a Zhejiang Geely.

I thought it was a stripper. Although Zhejiang Geely would be a good stage name for a pole star.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't recall Jaguar being renown for their economy. If Tesla shows us anything, it is the reasons people are willing to go electric are not purely about economical operation.

Now in the past if your car was not so efficient, but otherwise something people wanted you could just throw another 5 gallons into the size of the gas tank. Doing so fixed your range issues and didn't cost much. Throwing in another 60 kw/h of battery capacity is a whole different matter. 12 kw/h is roughly equivalent to the energy in 1 gallon of gasoline at the wheels.

 

[RayDunzl]

Throwing in another 60 kw/h of battery capacity is a whole different matter. 12 kw/h is roughly equivalent to the energy in 1 gallon of gasoline at the wheels.

*waits for the 192kWhr models.

Tank miles on two trips to Texas

Tesla Range Table - https://teslike.com/