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PMC Result6, Neumann KH120, Focal ST6 Solo6 and upcoming Neumann KH150 + IK Precision?

dickiefunk

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Hi,

I don’t see a lot regarding the PMC Result6 speakers. Has anyone here used the PMC Result6 speakers?
What are people’s thoughts on these compared to the Neumann KH120’s and Focal ST6 Solo6?

It would also be interesting to know how they compare to the IK Precision 5/6 and Neumann KH150 when they become available.
 
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dickiefunk

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Thanks for sharing this.
The new Focal ST6 are a new “improved” series. Also those are different PMC monitors?
The PMC Result6’s do come up secondhand fairly regularly and perhaps there’s good reason for that?

I do find the Neumann KH120’s to be surprisingly good though but they don’t go quite low enough for my requirements.
 

Koeitje

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I owned PMC Twenty.22's, and those were absolutely terrible. Maybe their consumer stuff is just worse, but I'd just avoid the brand entirely.
 

AlexanderM

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I'll put this here as well.

Erin's review of Focal Twin6 Be he states, "In my humble opinion, I think a couple well-implemented parametric EQ bands would take this from a “great” speaker to a “benchmark” level speaker. If you are on the fence about this speaker, I think it’s definitely worth consideration. Buy it from a reputable dealer with a liberal return policy and give it a shot." I'm putting this here because it makes me question when some say it's a flawed design, meaning all of the speakers of this type. I'm also wondering if there's been an improvement in all of the Focal speakers of this design, with the new models?


 

dfuller

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I'm putting this here because it makes me question when some say it's a flawed design, meaning all of the speakers of this type.

So the Twin6 is a 2.5 way, it's not quite the same as a 2 way MTM. However horizontal arrangement like that is just not a good idea because of the phase cancellation around the crossover, it makes much more sense to stand them up vertically because vertical dispersion isn't nearly as critical as horizontal to how we integrate sound.

I'm also wondering if there's been an improvement in all of the Focal speakers of this design, with the new models?

Not... Not really. Likely the Solo6s saw some improvement what with that vaguely waveguide shaped thing around the tweeter.

I owned PMC Twenty.22's, and those were absolutely terrible. Maybe their consumer stuff is just worse, but I'd just avoid the brand entirely.
No, most of their pro audio stuff is pretty pants also. The BIG ones are okay and use the transmission line effectively.

Realistically, I'd sooner just buy a pair of the newer Focal Solo6s and a decent sub.
 
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dickiefunk

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Thanks for the suggestions.
At the moment I'm using Neumann KH120's with an Eve TS108 sub and I really like both of these a lot. I'm not getting the best integration of the sub at the moment and am considering changing to a single pair of speakers that have greater bass extension than the KH120's. It's not that the Eve TS108 sounds bad, in fact it sounds great but I'm aware it could still be better. However, I really like the KH120's a lot and am so used to them after mixing on them for over 10 years! I'm also changing the layout of my room soon including changing my main studio desk. This will open up a few new placement options for the Eve TS108 sub which I'm hoping will improve its integration with the KH120's and my room further! I am pretty relucent to change what I have as like I said, I'm so used to the KH120's and also, the TS108 comes with an extremely useful remote control which gives me full control over every feature including powering the sub on and off. This is a pretty big deal to me.
I have considered changing the Eve TS108 for a Neumann KH750dsp for the extra dsp features but the remote control is limited, and you need an additional router connected to the sub to control it. The KH750 goes down roughly a further octave to the TS108 which I'm concerned could be too much for my small room. Also, I would have to constantly crawl down on the floor to power it on and off every day.
The new Neumann KH150's look great but it turns out they are more expensive than I realized. I often see second hand KH310's for a fair amount cheaper than a pair of KH150's and given the choice I would prefer those.
The Focal ST6 Solo6's look like a good option but I would be sacrificing a little bass extension. The Focal Solo6 don't seem to fare that favorably on here either.
The IK iLoud Precision's appear to tick a lot of the boxes but they are rear ported which might not be the best option position close to a rear wall in my small room and some of the features look gimmicky. However, I've not heard these personally so can't comment on those.
One of the challenges I have is getting to hear these speakers in my room. I'm hoping that a dealer has demo models for people to try but if not, I would need to buy them to hear them which would be a problem as I would need to sell what I have first to help fund the cost. This makes me pretty nervous and I'm most likely to stick with Neumann as it is reported that all their monitors share the same overall sound signature but with increased bandwidth.

I'm aware Neumann are releasing a KH120mk2 at some point and I am curious to see if there are any other significant changes other than adding the dsp. If there are other changes that further improve these monitors, I will be very tempted to upgrade to these and pursue improving integration of the Eve TS108.
 
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dickiefunk

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There are a few very positive reviews for the PMC Result6 here :-




 

Krischtopp

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I went from Neumann KH 120 A to Genelec 8050 to PMC Result6. I never compared the KH 120 with the Result6 directly, but we can go from left to right.

While the KH 120 is a great and very neutral speaker, I preferred the Genelec. In my room, it had a bit more resolution, better spacial imaging, better and deeper low end (no surprise as it's 5.25" vs 8") and the filters were more useful to adapt the speaker to my room. Overall I would still say both speakers are roughly in the same ballpark and some people might prefer the KH 120 in their room.

The PMC Result6 are very different from the Genelec 8050. They have much more resolution and even better spacial imaging. They are tuned quite bright and have rather lean bass. I would compare their bass frequency response roughly to a Genelec 8040 (not 8050) with bass roll-off set to -4 or -6 db - which is a good starting point for a lot of small rooms. The transmission line bass is different from ported speakers. Both Neumann KH 120 A and Genelec 8050 are ported and go from tight to a very loose bass within a few Hz - the change is very noticeable. The PMC Result6 change more gradually. You will have to decide for yourself what you like better, there's no clear winner in my opinion. Their dispersion is much wider, which allows you to get really close to them. I'm currently sitting 1.2 m away from them and I can still move around without the tonality of the speakers changing too much, which was not possible with the Genelec or the Neumann. I was and still am astonished of what these little speakers can do. The Genelec 8050 is almost muddy in comparison and has moved to my mom's living room since (she loves them).

Beware, the PMC will show you every weakness of your room and cannot be adjusted to the room (they only have a volume knob). If your RT 60 isn't flat, you will hear it. If they stand 5 cm too far apart, you will hear it. Prepare for a long period of finding the perfect position and improving your room's acoustics (which will most likely be expensive).

In my opinion, Genelec and Neumann both look for a very even dispersion and ruler flat frequency response, and therefore produce speakers that sound very neutral, look good on graphs, and work good in bad rooms. PMC sacrifices all of it to make a speaker that is exceptionally revealing and forces you to fix your room to have a great listening/working experience. I think they don't care at all how their speakers measure as long as they sound good. I mean their studio lineup, I don't know and care about their HIFI series.

In my opinion, it's not worth to switch from the KH 120 to Result6 for better bass. If you like the Neumann sound, I would get a Neumann subwoofer or the mentioned KH 150/310. The Result6 sound very different overall and might or might not be an upgrade for you. PMC does not have a matching subwoofer for the Result6.
 

program2000

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I have experience with kh80, kh120, kh310 and many other studio monitors.

You praise Neumann speakers, but Amir, Erin end some others of us my friends aren't music producers. So you don't understand that your measurements are "not complete". These Neumann speakers sound "compressed". It means they sound like as if a compressor was connected between the source and the loudspeaker.

You listen music, but you don't know how compressor sounds I think. And spinorama don't tell us everything about speakers sound. Flat - yes, distorted - no, but this is not enough.

Best regards
B.
 

LTig

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I have experience with kh80, kh120, kh310 and many other studio monitors.

You praise Neumann speakers, but Amir, Erin end some others of us my friends aren't music producers. So you don't understand that your measurements are "not complete". These Neumann speakers sound "compressed". It means they sound like as if a compressor was connected between the source and the loudspeaker.

You listen music, but you don't know how compressor sounds I think. And spinorama don't tell us everything about speakers sound. Flat - yes, distorted - no, but this is not enough.

Best regards
B.
Erin measures compression.
 

dfuller

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These Neumann speakers sound "compressed". It means they sound like as if a compressor was connected between the source and the loudspeaker.
Sorry, but as someone who mixes on KH310s... No.
 

Krischtopp

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These Neumann speakers sound "compressed". It means they sound like as if a compressor was connected between the source and the loudspeaker.
I agree, especially with short listening distances. My best guess is, that this is mostly caused by their narrow directivity. Or the directivity difference between bass, mid and treble (I haven't heard any speakers with kidney-shaped directivity bass). I've also had this issue with smaller speakers by PSI Audio and ME Geithain. Both have a very narrow directivity in the higher mid and treble region. It becomes even more noticeable if you listen to a PA system with a narrow horn in a small room.
 

program2000

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This is not a malicious attack on Neumann speakers or on the developers or the ASR community. I love this forum.

Working with these monitors in different rooms and of course with room correction (+ subwoofer) I noticed that listening to music is pleasant but in some way colored (in my opinion something like a vari-mu compressor with a very low ratio, this is of course subjective). When working on them, the mix seems to be finished, while on other monitors the compression is definitely lacking, even on the master bus. Neumanns sound smooth, soft and, unfortunately, in my opinion they cheat in this matter. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I wanted to raise this topic, especially when they are great in measurements.

B.
 

Purité Audio

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I went from Neumann KH 120 A to Genelec 8050 to PMC Result6. I never compared the KH 120 with the Result6 directly, but we can go from left to right.

While the KH 120 is a great and very neutral speaker, I preferred the Genelec. In my room, it had a bit more resolution, better spacial imaging, better and deeper low end (no surprise as it's 5.25" vs 8") and the filters were more useful to adapt the speaker to my room. Overall I would still say both speakers are roughly in the same ballpark and some people might prefer the KH 120 in their room.

The PMC Result6 are very different from the Genelec 8050. They have much more resolution and even better spacial imaging. They are tuned quite bright and have rather lean bass. I would compare their bass frequency response roughly to a Genelec 8040 (not 8050) with bass roll-off set to -4 or -6 db - which is a good starting point for a lot of small rooms. The transmission line bass is different from ported speakers. Both Neumann KH 120 A and Genelec 8050 are ported and go from tight to a very loose bass within a few Hz - the change is very noticeable. The PMC Result6 change more gradually. You will have to decide for yourself what you like better, there's no clear winner in my opinion. Their dispersion is much wider, which allows you to get really close to them. I'm currently sitting 1.2 m away from them and I can still move around without the tonality of the speakers changing too much, which was not possible with the Genelec or the Neumann. I was and still am astonished of what these little speakers can do. The Genelec 8050 is almost muddy in comparison and has moved to my mom's living room since (she loves them).

Beware, the PMC will show you every weakness of your room and cannot be adjusted to the room (they only have a volume knob). If your RT 60 isn't flat, you will hear it. If they stand 5 cm too far apart, you will hear it. Prepare for a long period of finding the perfect position and improving your room's acoustics (which will most likely be expensive).

In my opinion, Genelec and Neumann both look for a very even dispersion and ruler flat frequency response, and therefore produce speakers that sound very neutral, look good on graphs, and work good in bad rooms. PMC sacrifices all of it to make a speaker that is exceptionally revealing and forces you to fix your room to have a great listening/working experience. I think they don't care at all how their speakers measure as long as they sound good. I mean their studio lineup, I don't know and care about their HIFI series.

In my opinion, it's not worth to switch from the KH 120 to Result6 for better bass. If you like the Neumann sound, I would get a Neumann subwoofer or the mentioned KH 150/310. The Result6 sound very different overall and might or might not be an upgrade for you. PMC does not have a matching subwoofer for the Result6.
The PMC has a slightly lifted treble response that might initially sound revealing but over time becomes wearisome.
Keith
 

Krischtopp

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In my room, the PMC stay more revealing even if I lower the treble by 6 db. The Genelec stay less revealing even if I raise the treble. I cannot listen to the Genelec with raised treble for very long, it gets very tiring. Sometimes lowering the treble of the PMC brings out even more midrange clarity, which can be useful. If I were using the PMC Result 6 only for relaxed listening, I would prefer the highs to be a few db lower. As a studio speaker I think they're tuned well.
 

Purité Audio

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More revealing, the only speakers I have found to be ‘more revealing’ sre those with a cardioid response simply because you hate hearing more direct sound.
Whenever I hear ‘more revealing’ it always smacks of some precursor to some subjective twaddle, ie ‘in my system which is extremely revealing’.
Keith
 
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