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Pls help to integrate sub with genelec 8030c

theshade

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I used minidsp 85 hz crossover for the genelec 8030c's. 100 for the sub. Room is around 20(this is approximate) by 8 feet. Genelecs are nearfield at the left and right of a single seat recliner. Distance from speaker to listening position is probably 4 to 5 feet. They are positioned probably at the middle of the room and around 10 feet from front and back walls. I cannot move the sub because it takes up a lot of space and is 4 and a half feet long. It is located in the right middle side wall.

Individual near field measurements of the genelecs.

Left

genelec 8030c left.jpg



Right

genelec 8030c right.jpg


Sub before eq at listening position

sub before eq.jpg



Sub after auto eq at listening position. Auto eq did one band 60 hz it dropped the response.

sub after auto eq auto did 1 band.jpg


sub with left and right genelec 8030c's at listening position.

sub and genelec after auto eq.jpg


No need for multi listening positions as this is a bedroom setup. Just the natural movement of the recliner. The dip at 40 hz does not go away with dif filter and crossover settings. Room mode? Add svs sb1000 pro? Are the measurements somewhat good or atrocious? Any suggestions? Thanks
 
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pjug

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Is putting the subwoofer on a stand an option? Have you tried playing with the sub height?
 
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theshade

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Is putting the subwoofer on a stand an option? Have you tried playing with the sub height?[/QUOTE

no I cannot elevate the sub. it acts like a side table with a lot of things on it. I can add small subs though like an svs sb1000
 

abdo123

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left and right and sub.

the subwoofer seems well integrated, but the response between 100Hz and 200Hz is pretty messy.

It's not as messy when you measure the individual speakers, so perhaps you can check if it's less messy when you measure only left or right too (with sub)?
 
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theshade

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the subwoofer seems well integrated, but the response between 100Hz and 200Hz is pretty messy.

It's not as messy when you measure the individual speakers, so perhaps you can check if it's less messy when you measure only left or right too (with sub)?

Thanks for the suggestion. I will do it tom so I wont disturb the neighbors. I also measured the left and right genelec's both playing without a crossover and a sub. It also looks bad and also has the 50 hz massive decline in output. I wasnt able to save the files though. Depending on the tilt of the recliner the high frequencies are changing having scooped out regions. Is it right to put the umik 1 with its included mini tripod on top of the recliner pointed towards the speakers? I will do more measurements tom.
 
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theshade

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I wonder if that 100Hz dip in the combined graph is due to your filter. Did to try at all to time/phase align them?
How do I phase and time align them? First time using minidsp. I just entered the calibration file then clicked measure. Then match to target response and save filters. auto eq did one band. I raised the crossover for the sub to 100hz. At 85hz, there were more extreme dips. Thanks
 

MZKM

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How do I phase and time align them? First time using minidsp. I just entered the calibration file then clicked measure. Then match to target response and save filters. auto eq did one band. I raised the crossover for the sub to 100hz. At 85hz, there were more extreme dips. Thanks
Either the phase setting on the subwoofer to add a few ms of delay to the speakers or sub in the MiniDSP.
 

pjug

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What is wrong with raising off the floor? Just put them on concrete blocks or similar for testing whether changing height makes a difference. How is this different than fiddling with moving to another x-y location?
 
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abdo123

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What is wrong with raising off the floor? Just put them on concrete blocks or similar for testing whether changing height makes a difference. How is this different than fiddling with moving to another x-y location?

Because the vertical bounce will not disappear if he raises it, the problem frequencies will just move further up the frequency range.

However when you move the subwoofer across all 3 dimensions you can ‘stack’ room modes. If you stack a dip and peak on top of each other they kind of cancel out.
 

pjug

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Because the vertical bounce will not disappear if he raises it, the problem frequencies will just move further up the frequency range.

However when you move the subwoofer across all 3 dimensions you can ‘stack’ room modes. If you stack a dip and peak on top of each other they kind of cancel out.
If you move it up in freq then you might be able to cross over below the problem. However, checking on a reflection calculator 40Hz seems low for a vertical bounce.
 

abdo123

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If you move it up in freq then you might be able to cross over below the problem. However, checking on a reflection calculator 40Hz seems low for a vertical bounce.

To get the axial modes below 20 Hz the room has to be very large 1000 m^3 and up (cinema, concert hall .etc)

To get the axial modes above 100Hz the room has to be incredibly small that no one can stay in it.

There is no ‘trick’ to good sub-bass.
 
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pjug

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To get the axial modes below 20 Hz the room has to be very large 1000 m^3 and up (cinema, concert hall .etc)

To get the axial modes above 100Hz the room has to be incredibly small that no can stay in it.

There is no ‘trick’ to good sub-bass.
Using the OP dimensions, it looks like you can get the floor and ceiling nulls above 100 Hz if you raise the sub height:
1624303033399.png
 

pjug

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You’re stacking the peak from the 800mm distance with the null of the 1600mm distance.

It’s not just ‘raise the sub aimlessly’.
To me it looks like floor and ceiling nulls can all be pushed up high enough. Though I have to say I have never tried this. Maybe I'll mess with it out of curiosity. Anyway running the numbers in the SBIR calc, 40hz does not look like it would be a floor or ceiling bounce. Although myybe I don't understand the room setup. What do you think it causing a 40hz null?
 

abdo123

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40hz does not look like it would be a floor or ceiling bounce.

1/4 wave length of 36 Hz is 2.4m, 40Hz is 2.15m.

the center subwoofer has to be 25 cm off the ground for the 40Hz null to be floor bounce. seems pretty sensible to me.

I deleted my previous comment because i wasn't sure i was commenting on the correct thing.
 

pjug

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1/4 wave length of 36 Hz is 2.4m, 40Hz is 2.15m.

the center subwoofer has to be 25 cm off the ground for the 40Hz null to be floor bounce. seems pretty sensible to me.

I deleted my previous comment because i wasn't sure i was commenting on the correct thing.
I am not following your calculation. You need heights of ear and driver, and listening distance, to make the direct and reflected triangle, right?
 

abdo123

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I am not following your calculation. You need heights of ear and driver, and listening distance, to make the direct and reflected triangle, right?

I don't want to spread any potential misinformation so I will not comment further unless OP provides detailed dimensions of the room.
 
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